RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:But Good Citizens In Canada Don't Need Guns, Right ? Alright. Let's try this again. I am not complaining about Fiddy's posts. I am answering them. If you think I am complaining, find the post where I said Fiddy should stop... I never asked him to. YOU, on the other hand, complained that "a stock board is no place" for gun talk, even though you had no issues with Fiddy's posts doing the same thing. YOU are complaining about my posts, which are discussing issues brought up by Fiddy. If you don't want to read my answers to Fiddy's posts... don't, but I will not stop answering Fiddy for your sake. If you think that the ENB board isn't the place for gun talk, tell Fiddy to stop raising the issue. I will not raise it on my own. I never have. You are barking up the wrong tree.
I am comparing the US to other high income countries because it makes sense to compare countries on similar socio-economic levels when it comes to crime. You can't compare the US to failed states and say: "Look, the US is so much better than Colombia". The goal isn't to be better than failed states. The goal is to be the best, period. And right now, the countries that are the best have strict gun control laws (and also very strong social safety nets).
And I find it hilarious that you keep insisting that it isn't fair for me to point out that more guns means more gun crimes. Yes. That's the point. More guns = more crime. More guns = more death. Because guns make crime much, much easier, even if they are not military grade. Guns make suicide, domestic violence, easier and deadlier. The success rate for suicide by pills is or cutting your wrists is 1.5%. With a firearm the success rate is 82.5%. Guns also make suicide more common because suicide is often impulsive. Guns make school shootings easier. Expanded magazines make mass shootings deadlier. That's why it's important to curb them. And we have proof from around the world, as I've shown you many times already, that curbing gun ownership works.
I haven't seen how many deaths are attributed to AR-15s vs handguns recently. Off the top of my head, I think handguns accounted for 10x more victims? But they are separate issues. AR-15s and similar weapons are often used in mass shootings, for obvious reasons. Handguns are more often used for robberies, confrontations, domestic violence... The first is used in planned attacks. The second is more often a spur of the moment thing.
But you are against either being banned, am I right? So it doesn't matter. You claim gun laws are only hurting law abiding citizens. But I have given you ample proof that taking away guns, even from law abiding citizens, protects those citizens.
How can I say this when crime rates are "soaring"? Well because while guns may protect you from a criminal (not always the case), they put you at much higher risk for violence within your household. The trade off is not beneficial. There isn't enough crime in Canada to justify the risks of owning a gun. And if the police can do its damn job, there never will be. The police in the US is an absolute travesty, and they need police reform even more than gun control IMO. But basic gun control (red flag and background checks and other small fry laws) would be a huge benefit as well.
And finally, you guys keep bringing up that rising crime rates are a "cultural change" issue. I'm pretty sure I know what that means, and the fact neither of you want to explain it is very telling. You're wrong of course. But until you have the guts to assume your ugly inner beliefs, I can't give arguments against something you don't dare enunciate.
NPCexe wrote: You're complaining about right wing posts on a stock board. I suggested you use the ignore button. That I recommended you don't do this on a stock board doesn't make it a complaint, don't worry I didn't go crying to SH support. As for the regular joe comment, I'll reiterate: your claim that we are giving regular joes access to military grade assault weapons is wrong: the semi automatic weapons the regular joe uses isn't the fully automatic weapons that a soldier gets, so this notion that American kids have easy access to military grade weapons is wrong. Even if you got rid of rifles, have you seen how many gun deaths are attributed to AR-15s versus handguns? And you're still cherry picking the data: you're looking at countries with low gun ownership that of course have no chances of inflicting gun crimes, as well as high income: what does high income have to do with looking at data? Is it perhaps because you're conveniently ignoring countries in S America like Honduras, Colombia, el Salvador, which have stringent gun laws and have done nothing to curb gun crime? As much as you're going to say it is hard to enforce the laws because they're a low income country, an equally worthwhile point to consider is that in such countries law abiding citizens are also restricted/banned from owning them (like in Canada) which means the gun laws are only hurting normal citizens who now can't defend themselves. And that is why in Canada Trudeau uses another country's tragedy to take away the guns of law abiding citizens, while 99.99% of the gun crimes are committed with illegal weapons. So if you want an honest comparison to other countries, it has to be countries that have high gun ownership but low crime rates, and it has to be properly attributable to gun legislation. And you keep bringing Canada up as an example but it is wrong, just recheck the data because gun crime is soaring in big cities. Which makes my point that a change in culture is the main driver, not gun legislation. You keep citing other countries that have gun laws as a prime example but none of those countries ever had problems with mass shootings and high gun crime, enacted legislation, and proceeded to see a massive reduction in gun crime. Thats why I said it's cherry picking.
yggdrasill wrote: NPCexe wrote: I don't complain about your posts,
Oh?
NPCexe wrote: Your reasoning is off and if you wish to discuss gun issues, a stock board is no place.
Is that not you?
NPCexe wrote:
I believe people should share ideas so long as they're good. YOU are the one complaining about fiddy so that's why I suggested censoring him since you hate his views. As for rankings, you may cherry pick data all you want, the fact of the matter is that everyone wanted to move there for more than a century and still does, and thus your argument falls apart when you don't take all other data into consideration. Furthermore semi automatic guns are not the most effective killing tool we have, so wrong again. The US integrates "assault weapons" in its arsenal, for starters. Lastly, nobody said there isn't a problem with gun violence: CLEARLY a problem exists. What I disagree with is your methods to solve this problem. You can make excuses for why any Act didn't work all you want, the issue is the Act didn't work, period. Therefore the solutions the government enacts are garbage and the data speaks for itself no matter how many "BUT... BUT..." pro government arguments you make to give them another chance to screw it up.
Are assault guns not guns? Yeah, we have bombs and other weapons of mass destruction, but I was talking in terms of things available to the regular joe. I didn't think I had to spell that out for you.
Now here's the thing. I'm not cherry-picking data. I'm not comparing the US to the only country that has a better homicide rate. That would be cherry-picking. I'm comparing it to ALL of the high income nations. It is, objectively, the WORST. Then I picked France and the UK because you alluded to them by cherry-picking one incident (Nice) and raising the issue of knives for which the UK is notorious. But I could have picked other countries. For example, the homicide rate in the US is
31x higher than Luxembourg's or Singapore's. It's
12.5x higher than Italy's... So don't blame me for cherry-picking.
You then cherry-pick one gun control law that didn't work, to claim that somhow that means all gun control laws and all government solutions are garbage. You fail to mention that other gun control laws have worked in basically every high income country in the world, which is why gun violence and homicides are so much lower in those countries.
Do you know any other country in the world where guns are the leading cause of death for children?
You're right that it's complicated. But the US has tried the "more guns" approach for the past 40 years, and it has made the US the worst in terms of gun violence AND homicide rates. It's time the US tried things that have worked in EVERY other country. Start with background checks and red flag laws. Do you support those two policies?