Join today and have your say! It’s FREE!

Become a member today, It's free!

We will not release or resell your information to third parties without your permission.
Please Try Again
{{ error }}
By providing my email, I consent to receiving investment related electronic messages from Stockhouse.

or

Sign In

Please Try Again
{{ error }}
Password Hint : {{passwordHint}}
Forgot Password?

or

Please Try Again {{ error }}

Send my password

SUCCESS
An email was sent with password retrieval instructions. Please go to the link in the email message to retrieve your password.

Become a member today, It's free!

We will not release or resell your information to third parties without your permission.
Quote  |  Bullboard  |  News  |  Opinion  |  Profile  |  Peers  |  Filings  |  Financials  |  Options  |  Price History  |  Ratios  |  Ownership  |  Insiders  |  Valuation

Bullboard - Stock Discussion Forum Theratechnologies Inc T.TH

Alternate Symbol(s):  THTX

Theratechnologies Inc. is a Canada-based clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company. The Company is focused on the development and commercialization of therapies addressing unmet medical needs. It markets prescription products for people with human immunodeficiency viruses (HIV) in the United States. The Company's research pipeline focuses on specialized therapies addressing unmet medical needs... see more

TSX:TH - Post Discussion

Theratechnologies Inc > Starpharma
View:
Post by jfm1330 on Aug 08, 2021 3:04pm

Starpharma

OK. Here is the company that I found yesterday and that shares many similarities with Thera. even though it's not a company working on PDCs. But other than that, there are many things that they do that Thera does, or will or should do. Here is the list of similarities

Both are from smaller countries, related to United Kingdom, Canada and Australia.

Market cap in USD, Thera (350 M$), Starpharma (370 M$)

Similar age: Thera founded in 1993, Starpharma founded in 1996

Both are working on infectious disease and oncology

In oncology, both claim to have a platform able to target cancer cells

In oncology, both claim to be able to concentrate chemotherapy drugs inside cancer cells

In oncology, both claim to be able to work with any chemotherapy drug

In oncology, both are in human trial with docetaxel, Thera in phase Ia, Starpharma in phase II


Maybe there are other similarities, but given that Starpharma is well ahead of Thera in cilinical trials in oncology and has poor market cap, I guess some here would say that Starpharma's management is also poor at communication and promotion....

I looked into Starpharma website, and it is worst than Thera's website, nonetheless, I found some informations there. In oncology it is hard to understand the details of their technology and how it really works. They call it dendrimer delivery system, and they claim it can target cancer cells, but I don't know how. They never talk about targeting a specific receptor, but at the same time they claim to acheive intracellular concentration of docetaxel, or other drugs, that is 45 to 70 times higher than docetaxel alone. They claim a modified phamacokinetic profile of docetaxel (lower C max of free docetaxel and higher AUC), which is what I expect for TH1902. They also say that they have very low neutropenia, all that in humans, out of a completed phase I. The phase I also yielded efficacy, some partial responses and many stable diseases. They also have preclinical data on mice similar to what Thera achieved.

So, with docetaxel, they already have or claim to have many of the things we hope TH1902 will be able to achieve in phase I and their market cap is similar to Thera. On the other hand, it provides some validation to the idea of increasing docetaxel concentration in cancer cells in advanced cancers. Can TH1902 beat that and show better efficacy? In phase II they also run a trial with their docetaxel-dendrimer + gemcitabine. So they are already at the combo trial stage. They are also working with their dendrimer on cabazitaxel (phase II) and SN38 (they call it Irinotecan, but in fact they work with the much more potent metabolite of irinotecan, called SN38). They are also in phase II with that.

https://www.starpharma.com/drug_delivery/dep_docetaxel

https://starpharma.com/news/339

https://www.starpharma.com/drug_delivery/dep_cabazitaxel

https://www.starpharma.com/drug_delivery/dep_irinotecan

https://www.starpharma.com/assets/uploads/2020-06/Starpharma%20AACR%20Poster%201716%20DEP%20docetaxel%20DEP%20cabazitaxel.pdf

https://www.starpharma.com/assets/uploads/2020-06/Starpharma%20AACR%20Poster%201715%20DEP%20irinotecan.pdf


So as you can see they are ahead of Thera by a good margin and they achieved some efficacy results. They are also doing what some here said Thera should not do, which is pushing combinations in human trials with many drugs, and even combo trial in phase II on top of that. Also they are already partnering their platform with big pharmas, like Astra Zeneca and Merck and other undiclosed companies. In one case they will attach their dendrimer + chemo drug to an ADC. That is complexing since why would you need an ADC if your dendrimer technology can target cancer cells by itself? Also, guess what? They are working with Lutetium 177 in preclinical with their dendrimer + a small molecule (nano body???) + Lu 177. This combo would target HER 2 recepror. They already have very good preclinical results on xenograft mice with that.

https://starpharma.com/assets/asxannouncements/210428%20Shareholder%20Newsletter.pdf

I concentrated my readings only on the oncology part of Starpharma, as I said, they also work on infectious diseases with anti-viral stuff. So as we can see, only with the the oncology part they are well ahead of Thera, and still, have a similar market cap. That is why I said in my initial message that this can be viewed as negative for Thera. I think Starpharma shows that "mild" efficacy results with TH1902 will not propel the stock price. We will need more than that. Starpharma is well ahead of Thera in their oncology program, with human trials on many drugs combinations, partnerships and working with ADC and radioisotopes in preclinical. This shows that a company of that size can run multiple things at the same time. That being said, there are reason to hope that SORT1+ will end up being a better approach than their dendrimer technology.

Thera got fast track at the preclinical stage, which Starpharma does not have in phase II. There is a reason for that and we can see it as validation that SORT1+ as a greater potential. Another thing that SORT1+ clearly has for itself is a clear target (sortilin) and a defined MOA., while in the case of Starpharma, the MOA is not explained in anything I found. Don't ask me how it targets cancer cells, I found nothing explaining it. There is also nothing about overcoming MDR resistance, or how they were able to determine that they can concentrate the drug 45 to 70 times more in cancer cells. They claim that without any explaination. Another thing that I found is that in phase I, they injected doses of their dendrimer-docetaxel entity at doses that are equivalent to 10 to 105 mg/m2 of docetaxel alone. So they were not able to really exceed the maximum tolerable dose of docetaxel alone, which is 100 mg/m2, while we think that Thera is now at twice the MTD of docetaxel alone (200 mg/m2 of docetaxel alone or 460 mg/m2 of TH1902). I don't understand why they did not go to a higher equivalent dose of docetaxel, since they claim to reduce neutropenia by a lot. Another thing is that Thera seems to be able to target more cancer types and they have the advantage of sortilin expression growth as the cancer advances to more aggressive stages.

The example of Starpharma is a very good one because even though they are not working on PDCs, thay have numerous similarities with Thera. Also, in my view, it allows to draw a line, or set a standard of what Thera will need to clearly beat if we are to see a much higher stock price in the relatively short term. It also shows that a company of that size can do many things at the same time, many things in human trials, combo trials, partnerships, and new preclinical stuff like working with ADC and Lu 177. I will continue to search and read about Starpharma, feel free to do the same and share any interesting fact.
Comment by qwerty22 on Aug 08, 2021 4:58pm
I like this PR for the Ph1 data (equivalent of end of part 2 for thtx). https://starpharma.com/news/339 Some quotes and implications for thtx. "Due to the lack of protocol-defined DLTs for DEP® docetaxel, a formal Maximum Tolerated Dose (MTD) was not determined." A great target for thtx too, shows you don't have to keep going up in dose if you have a wide ...more  
Comment by qwerty22 on Aug 08, 2021 5:14pm
That data came out in sept 2017! This update from Apr 2021 suggests to me efficacy hasn't really matched the safety situation. "The phase 2 DEP® docetaxel trial continues to progress well, with more than 40 patients now recruited and encouraging efficacy signals observed, including prolonged stable disease and tumour shrinkage in patients with pancreatic, oesophageal, and gastric ...more  
Comment by scarlet1967 on Aug 08, 2021 5:26pm
YTD they lost over 23% market value, since mid February they lost over over 50% of their market value ...
Comment by qwerty22 on Aug 08, 2021 5:52pm
From Oct 2020. One of their follow on molecules. Again sounds like their tumour responses are not deep. Emphasizing durability in a small number of patients. The odd thing this tends to be the opposite way it usually works with chemo. "DEP® irinotecan phase 2 trial is recruiting patients rapidly, with 26 patients already dosed and a high level of interest in the study. Encouraging ...more  
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 08, 2021 5:48pm
The Astra Zeneca deal dates to 2015. I did not see any results or trial out of that. Still, I do not understand how this dendrimer technology can target cancer cells by itself. But at the end of the articl they claim that again without explainations. Imagine if Thera would be that opaque about SORT1+. https://www.outsourcing-pharma.com/Article/2015/09/07/AstraZeneca-signs-dendrimer-drug-delivery ...more  
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 08, 2021 5:53pm
Phase I on dendrimer-docetaxel was started in 2014. Very strange how long this thing is taking. There is something they are not explaining as to why the development is so long. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140122006615/en/Starpharma-Commences-Dendrimer-Docetaxel-Clinical-Trial
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 08, 2021 5:57pm
Their dendrimer technology was patented in 2013 and the patents are valid until 2029. Time flies... https://www.biospectrumasia.com/regulatory/27/1509/starpharma-dendrimer-technology-gets-3-us-patents.html
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 08, 2021 6:33pm
An article in Nature from January 2021 report a drug candidate from Astra Zeneca using Starpharma dendrimer technology. The rationale for its use seems to increase the solubility of the drug attached to the dendrimer and to have a slow release of the drug to limit maximum concentration (Cmax) in the bloodstream and to increase the area under the curve (AUC) in order to limit the toxicity. So it ...more  
Comment by Wino115 on Aug 08, 2021 7:11pm
All very interesting. I guess that approach has a real trade off between the extended release (which is helping the safety readings) and the efficacy they get -responses and regressions - which looks sort of weak in humans.  Looks fairly anecdotal so far.  But I do like it shows docetaxel, delivered the right way, can be really effective.  Although I don't see how they are ...more  
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 08, 2021 8:32pm
I am not sure how you dug this up but "good on you" as they say down under. Now, this is not a real company, at least in the sense that TH is a real company. They have almost no revenues and a stalled development program on a drug they really don't want to tell you too much about. It is worth remembering that Australia got its start, at least from a Western perspective, as a penal ...more  
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 08, 2021 9:28pm
Work with Google and many well chosen combinations of keywords. That being said, I don't understand why you say it's not a good comparison. I think you really need to look at it more closely and read about it and ask for explainations on the scientific side if you don't understand something. No comparison is perfect, but as I pointed out in my initial message, there are many ...more  
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 08, 2021 10:00pm
Please don't take my comments as a criticism of the great work you did. I just have experience as a global portfolio manager and know that small cap Australian companies are just a step above those trading on the Vancouver exchange. Perhaps I am biased because they do have the things you list but they also have barely progressed and have attracted no real analyst interest. And they have no ...more  
Comment by jeffm34 on Aug 08, 2021 10:50pm
The biggest take away from Starpharma is that you can't put too much stock into pre clinical and early stage results. Everything looked great from preclinical and phase 1 results but the program is clearly stalled for whatever reason. Could be poor trial design who knows. I think I read that phase 1 did not see any DLT's because DLT's were not predetermined. 
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 08, 2021 11:14pm
Maybe this headline gives us some insight into Star Pharma: A Melbourne-based global biopharmaceutical company has been fined more than $93,000 for its alleged illegal advertising of a spray not approved for use in Australia that claims to stop SARS-Cov-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. The Therapeutic Goods Administration issued seven infringement notices totalling $93,240 to Starpharma ...more  
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 08, 2021 11:30pm
The below press release from June 3rd, 2019 on their second partnership with Astra Zeneca is clearly not a partnership that indicates Star Pharma is operating from a position of strength. All of their activities that  I have seen on a quick review of their news indicate they are a company that is not considered as a first or even second rate drug developer. They are something akin to CYDY ...more  
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 08, 2021 11:35pm
They did recieve a small milestone payment from AZ back in 2017 but nothing since as far as I can tell. One has to presume that program is dead in the water - here is the press release related to that: Starpharma receives DEP® milestone from AstraZeneca   Melbourne, Australia; 2 June 2017: Starpharma (ASX: SPL, OTCQX: SPHRY) today announced it has received A$2.6 million from ...more  
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 09, 2021 11:04am
I don't understand why you are slamming them like you do. They are not even close to CYDY. Even talking about Australia being a former penitenciary colony, talk about prejudice. At that point Thera is bad because Canada was founded at the beginning only for fur trade... The day I will see a very serious article in Nature involving something developped by CYDY and involoving a large pharma, I ...more  
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 09, 2021 11:44am
I will admit that I am biased (I think I already did) but that bias is a result of experience. To me, it looks better than CYDY but closer to it than to TH. 
Comment by qwerty22 on Aug 09, 2021 12:03pm
Details matter. The article is not in Nature it's in a journal called Communications Biology. The Merck thing is a research agreement not a partnership, it doesn't look like cash changed hands. Keytruda is being tested in combination with (idk) 100's of experimental drugs, all these come with agreements. I don't think these sorts of agreements should be over-hyped they are so ...more  
Comment by qwerty22 on Aug 09, 2021 12:05pm
Lol.   https://www.tga.gov.au/media-release/starpharma-holdings-limited-fined-93240-alleged-unlawful-advertising-viraleze-relation-covid-19
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 09, 2021 12:32pm
I get credit for finding that one first! https://stockhouse.com/companies/bullboard?symbol=t.th&postid=33670467 I am disappointed that you are not reading all my posts! But I will get over it. And it will not take as long as getting over the OO/NO, a process which is still not complete!
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 09, 2021 3:07pm
Some can say what they want about Starpharma, but it has clear relevance concerning the use of docetaxel. We knew that, but their data shows that good preclinical efficacy on xenograft nude mice needs to be taken very carefully. It is by no means directly transferable to real human patients with real big complex tumors. That being said, Starpharma claims to have been unable to reach the maximum ...more  
Comment by SPCEO1 on Aug 09, 2021 4:02pm
Despite my concerns about the overall sketchiness of Starpharma, I do not disagree that its efforts have some relevance for our thinking about TH. But I am happier with my investment in TH than I would be if I owned Starpharma. TH has roughly $70 million in product sales (vs. $4.1 million for Starpharma in the 12 months thru June 30, 2021), a phase III ready NASH asset about to be partnered and a ...more  
Comment by jfm1330 on Aug 09, 2021 4:15pm
My point was never to say that Starpharma was a good investment or a better company than Thera. I just saw some similarities with docetaxel, and their dendrimer thing being kind of their PDC platform. Not saying that dendrimer and PDC are the same, they are obviously not, but both can attach through cleavable linkers existing anti-cancer drugs. So there is a clear similarty there. Also, it was ...more  
Comment by qwerty22 on Aug 09, 2021 4:31pm
Maybe the take home message from starpharma is how you get your drug into the cell can have a profound effect on its characteristics, but that's pretty obvious already. They look to have solved a safety problem but the efficacy impact is yet to impress. Almost certainly you can't predict what is going to happen with th1902 based on this but it probably won't be like starpharma's ...more  
The Market Update
{{currentVideo.title}} {{currentVideo.relativeTime}}
< Previous bulletin
Next bulletin >

At the Bell logo
A daily snapshot of everything
from market open to close.

{{currentVideo.companyName}}
{{currentVideo.intervieweeName}}{{currentVideo.intervieweeTitle}}
< Previous
Next >
Dealroom for high-potential pre-IPO opportunities