RE:This threads turned into a real dik waving competitionken: Its not dik waving ken. I have seen enough of that in my profession to and despise it. I have encountered many supposed experts in my field who couldn't find their backside with both hands in daylight. I know what I am talking about when it comes to certain things in security and am proven wrong very few times. 80% of my business is cutting through the BS and finding the truth. I cannot stand hype, even for a company which I support. you may be a good mayor in a small town in Kentucky, but that doesn't qualify you for the office of the president of the US. I do not know the ins and outs of the stock market and always appreciate the insights from people such as Mr Bolduc, dude, magic to name a few. I do however own a successful company since the 80's so know just a tad about business. Have seen numerous companies come and go in security, full of hype and flush with cash. (usually borrowed) I hold my ground on a subject until proven wrong. if you or anyone out there can tell me how much red cloud is making for avo that will be great. name state, federal, provincial level government departartments that are buying red cloud card access panels. if they are only selling to private companies and school boards then that tells any analysis that they are not accepted in the big leagues. I know their cameras are going into federal buildings because I have seen it for myself. cheers and this will be my last comment on red cloud