Pyrogenesis Canada Inc T.PYR

RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:It's A Known Fact.

[claudemc]

Just to add my two pennies... there is nothing 'simple' about this new age of trading in the markets today. Algo trading has pretty much taken over, the majority of trades happening (I believe it's > 90% of all trades) are super computers trading against super computers and may the best algo win.

I checked in on some trading house sites and below I will list the types of Algo's available to use if you were to get a trading account with them, it's mind boggling and also a little excessive imo, whatever happened to good old fashion trading based on actual company financials, performance, and projections??

These algos have absolutely nothing to do with companies in any way, they are just looking at raw trade data, in fact they have algos that just make up data so that other algos will think something is happening, it's a whole new world out their, we are most certainly not in Kansas anymore as the saying goes... below is the list, and while it may appear like a long and complete list, those are just the algos developed by one broker, they also had third party algos that you could use which was another list half as long as the one below... I didn't bother posting those, I figured you would get the idea, and I assume other houses also have their own excessive list of algos...

stay safe! (here is the list... it's long)

Accumulate / Distribute
Adaptive Algo
All or None
Arrival Price
At Auction
Auction
Balance Impact and Risk
Basket
Block
Box Top
Bracket
Conditional
Close Price
Currency Conversion
Dark Ice
Discretionary
Fill or Kill
Funari
Good After Time/Date (GAT)
Good-til-Canceled (GTC)
Good-til-Date/Time (GTD)
Hidden
IBKRATS
Iceberg/Reserve
Immediate or Cancel (IOC)
Limit
Limit if Touched
Limit-on-Close
Limit-on-Open
Market
Market if Touched
Market on Close
Market on Open
Market to Limit
Market with Protection
MidPrice
Minimize Impact
NYSE Closing Auction D-Quote
One-Cancels-All (OCA)
Outside RTH
Passive Relative
Pegged-to-Benchmark
Pegged-to-Market
Pegged-to-Midpoint
Pegged-to-Stock
Pegged Volatility Orders
Percent of Volume
Relative/Pegged-to-Primary
Request-for-Quote (RFQ)
Retail Price Improvement (RPI)
Scale
Snap to Market
Snap to Midpoint
Snap to Primary
Spreads
Stop
Stop - Adjustable
Stop - Trailing Stop
Stop - Trailing Stop Limit
Stop Limit
Stop with Protection
Sweep-to-Fill
Trailing Limit if Touched
Trailing Market if Touched
TWAP
Variant Algos
Volatility
VWAP - Best Efforts

MidtownGuy wrote: I wouldn't have thought so either, fdfd12, but I tested it recently on a buy I wanted to make, and instead traded a long series of odd lot trades into the ask against an algorithm pulling the price down, and I did indeed move the price back up every time the algo moved it down.

There's been a huge shift in the past few years to odd-lots, because of technology and slicing of orders by algorithms, as nearly half of all trades on some exchanges are odd lots (also because of the escalating prices of figurehead stocks like TSLA and APPL, people can only buy odd lots like 1 share of Amazon or 5 shares of TSLA).

In fact it used to be that odd-lot quotes weren't even shown on public data feeds, but you can clearly now see small odd lots trades go through.

Maybe it's an allowance for retail traders only, as trading houses I think are still obligated to execute trades at the best price posted on an exchange, with those prices only by round-lot quotes.

Regardless, I did indeed test it out for half a day recently and it was quite surprising to me also.

Maybe others here have similar or contrary experiences. Another fun thing to examine.

 

fdfd12 wrote: Odd lots (less than 100 shares) do NOT move the price.
You can have a bid of $3.70 and an ask at $3.75 with the last price at $3.75.
10 shares market will NOT move the stocks price from $3.75 to $3.70.

The price will remain at $3.75.

MidtownGuy wrote: Sadly any trade made at the bid price rather than the ask price adjusts the overall price down to that sale price. And it can be done with a trade of 1 share. But traders usually use blocks of 100 share so that they can argue they weren't trying to adjust the price intentionally... and because the system is structured around 100 share blocks which get filled faster than odd numbers and can thus assure the planned price movement.

wallyman wrote: Looking at the chart pjecan posted--Can somebody please explain to me how a 5 share trade can send a stock down a penny?  I know being able to trade commission free has led to a lot of this happening but do not understand how such a small trade can do that to the price in either direction.