Incitec Pivot Ltd T.IPL

RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:IPL asking price-24$

[Maxmoe]

Yes, a swap can be structured any way you want. Imagine the bank was truly daft and went effectively short the stock when it wrote the swap! Doubtful, but not impossible.I'm speculating here but I believe internal bank holdings are not iiroc reporting entities so the short and/or any cover would go unreported on the bimonthly short position report. If I'm the osc, I'd sure want to thoroughly parse that derivative agreement to assess the share ownership ( effective,equivalent,partially-diluted, etc) and the relationship between the parties. The SEC sure will if they take an interest.  Just follow the money because there is no way a bank takes a $100 million plus loss without a quid pro quo. Doubtful they just loan $500 million worth of stock for a couple points interest. If the bank knew Brookfield was making a bid at 17 or 18, whatever it was, at the same time they were accumulating 40 million shares at 12 or 13, that smells like insider trading to me. If it's all legal it shouldn't be. It's slippery and deceitful. Think Conrad black and his no compete agreements. Totally legal at the time, but totally went to jail anyway because it screwed ordinary retail shareholders for the gain of Conrad, or Brookfield.  Shady,greasy deal man.

Dementedaccount wrote:

Just an FYI the total return swap can be structured where the underlying is delivered...normally the way TRS are done is the client will go to a Bank and enter into a swap for the underlying stock....the bank will accumulate the stock and add them to the pay leg of the swap...the buyer will pay an interest rate on the value of the underlying stock....some bank out there has 9.9% of IPL on its balance sheet...if they did not who ever wrote the short leg of the swap would have had an instant loss on the day the deal hit the news...GLTA

 

FreddieMac wrote:

 

I think you are genuinely confused as to how a total return swap operates.   It is not issued by the underlying company (in this case IPL) and there is nothing to convert into underlying equity of IPL.  It is simply a form of agreement made by two parties about the financial performance of a third asset (in this case IPL stock).  It is not like a warrant or option ISSUED BY IPL which could, conceivably, get converted to IPL common stock.   A swap can not ever be converted to common shares because that is not how they are structured.   That is what put and call options and warrants are for.   

So by your interpretation the OSC should be treating BIP as an insider or reporting insider.   So I guess the fact that BIP's ownership of IPL stopped just shy of 10% is just a happy coincidence and not prudent planning by BIP's legal counsel.  

It appears clear that you want things to be a certain way, facts or the law be damned.   You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts.  

 

Maxmoe wrote: Blah,blah,blah. Are you going to cry now? As I said, you're full of it and you bore me. No I'm not going to law clerk for you. There are plenty of precedents for the partial dilution I referred to whereby you have to not only add up the warrants,options,convertibles,swaps etc,etc, but for the purposes of calculating the 10% you must assume only you convert whatever instruments you have into common and nobody else does. No I'm not going to search the act to find it, I know it to be a fact because I have witnessed it and got in sh!t for it once.Turns out the osc was pretty adamant that I needed to report. I plead ignorance and got off with an official warning sent my board of directors governance committee. I'm done, if you still can't process this than we'll just have to wait and see if the osc ever gets around to this.