I Like MHPEven though we sparred when I was "retiredengexec" while he gets emotional, he bases his opinion on fact You guys should listen to him As far as management is concerned they need to sell their plans better. What's the saying about wars. Something like plans only last until the bullets start flying If I was them I'd say look we are in a new environment and here's what gonna do. When I worked for Murphy I asked Roger Jenkins why they had refineries. He said 85 percent of the time we break even but make out like bandits . Same applies very as price will go down