Experienced wrote:
mrbb wrote: of course china is backing russia, here is my 3 reasons why:
1. it proves china is weaker than we perceived, having russia as an old ally is important. If you look at map of china, they are surrounded by old foes. Russia is the only old friend china has touching its border. China want to make sure russia is not impeding china's objectives.
2. russia is the father of marxism, of course china bow to russia historically speaking. In fact, china gave back whole bunch of disputed lands to russia as a gesture of friendship and secret deals we won't know about.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/former-chinese-regime-leader-jiang-zemin-gifted-a-huge-amount-of-chinese-land-to-russia-and-other-countries_3007595.html
https://realnewsaggregator.com/news/2021/07/12/the-ccp-endorsed-all-the-unequal-treaties-with-russia/
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/vladimir-putin-gifted-giant-pandas-091015459.html
3. this third reason is my opinion. By supporting russia to take back crimea and hopefully again with ukraine, it could provoke a war with EU and pull in USA military and away from south china sea, opening opportunity for china to invade taiwan.
autofocus111 wrote: @Experienced I think you are correct on all 3 points you made. FYI: China is apparently supporting Russia's position on security concerns. Their alliance continues to gain strength. US/EU are walking on thin ice.<br /> <br /> >>>Chinese President Xi Jinping is fully supportive of Russia’s plan to work out security guarantees with NATO to protect its western border, Russian presidential aide Yuri Ushakov said on Wednesday. Ushakov’s comments came after Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke with Xi via video link. The revelation that China is backing Moscow is particularly notable, as Beijing has previously sought to distance itself from Russia’s problems in dealing with other European states.<br /> <br /> https://www.rt.com/russia/543400-nato-security-guarantees-request/
<br /> </p>
With all due respect, while your post was interesting, it lacked a number of important historical contexts.
1.....the Great Wall of China was built across the northern and north central part of China thousands of years ago. The Great Wall served as a border wall and was were custom duties were collected from people wishing to trade with the Chinese. The lands that you referred to in your post were outside this longstanding border of China and as such were never part of the original country of China and this fact is well recognized in Chinese history which is well documented. The lands outside of the wall over the subsequent years were the results of imperialistic actions by subsequent Chinese rulers and the people in these lands were never considered to be Chinese either by the Chinese themselves or the people who lived there.
2...with Point 1 as background, the treaties that you referred to have very little to do with whether the Chinese and the Russians are friends. If anything, they merely suggest that historical wrongs were being corrected and from a Chinese point of view it was a way of solving a problem that they grew tired of fighting and paying money to support an untenable situation and found a way to solve the problem and get something back in return (a smart move as far as I am concerned).
3....in terms Chinese communism, some historical context is needed here. Chian Kai-shek originally rose to power through an agreement between the Kuomintang and the Chinese Communist Party (CPC) to overthrow the Beiyang Government. The coalition between the Kuomintang and the CPC broke down and Chiang massacred thousands of communists to gain sole power. What ensued later was in fact a civil war between the CPC and Chiang, ultimately leading to the victory by Mao in 1949.
4....Mao was fervant believer in the basic priciples of marxism. As early as 1956 there was a split between Russia and China as Russia began to move away from marxism to a "Soviet" style of Communism. As time went on this split grew wider and wider to point of outward hostility. So to suggest that in any way that the Russian and the Chinese are long time friends because they are both Communist countries is simply wrong . Mao adopted marxism and as we all know Karl Marx was not even a Russian and it took 7 scant years for an idealogical split to occur between the Chinese under Mao and the Russians under Khrushchev, who by the way, was Ukrainian and gave the Dunbas to the Ukrainians.
5....recently, China and Russia have gotten closer. This has nothing to do with friendship, but rather simply to do with economics. The Russians facing sanctions under Trump, looked to China as way for increased commerce and a market for their oil and gas. The Chinese saw the Russian sanctions and wanted to ensure an energy supply if the undertook imperialistic actions (eg takeover of Taiwan) and faced sanctions of their own.
6....based on this history, the Russians have little legitmate claim to the Ukraine except for the Dunbas. The Russian economy is weak and they have little interest in facing even greater sanctions if they invaded The Ukraine. China, on the other hand has a historical claim to Taiwan and the economic and military power to take it over. Western countries like the US have treaties and agreements with Taiwan but none of them rise to the level of the NATO doctrine where an attack on any one of them is an attack on all them and for this reason (along with others) the US (nor anyone else for that matter) will protect Taiwan in any meaningful way it is attacked by China and the Chinese of course know this full well. Further, due to China's economic power, sanctions would like be just as devastating to those imposing the sanctions as it would be on China (just picture the shelves in Walmart under an embargo of Chinese goods).
7....the current US Administration under Biden has no stomach to do anything to the Chinese thanks to the shenanigans of Hunter Biden and the payoffs to Joe himself. (If you don't think that happened then I suggest you look at Biden's financial disclosures required as President and compare that wealth to someone you know who has only worked for the Government)
Sooo - there you have it!!!