Wino115 wrote: I think you understand it correctly. The reason is that no company announces normal and expected SAEs they record in their trials. In fact, the trial is designed to push it to the point you see a bunch of sick patients, likely with neutropenia and other things which would clearly show you the limit was reached and you need to lower it back. It's part and parcel of a 1a dosage trial.
We only happened to hear of the initial one at the 1.5x level because they chose to update us where they stood during one of those healthcare conference webcasts. They've told us they are following the FDA dosage trial requirements to the "T" and we know that they can keep upping the dosage until they get a few dose limiting toxicity events at a particular level --more than just 1. Then they drop down one and do a full panel for a few cycles and end it.
In other words, for all we know there have been others at that level or near it. By definition there will be far more than one eventually. But nothing requires them to announce it unless they want to or wait to just review the whole thing and give us the answers -- dosage for next phase and here's what we learned. The only material event would be they have final results from the trial and need to release them. A second material event would be if they've changed what the 1b portion of the trial will be --either types of tumors, number of patients, or length of treatment. I suspect we may hear that, or a confirmation they are still with the initial FDA plan of 40 patients in 4 cancers, at the same time or soon after the 1b is discussed.
That's the reasons behind no PR around every toxicity, but you are right in thinking maybe they haven't hit it or, if we're really lucky, sortilin is present in most of the patients and it's attracted the majority of the PDC to get internalized so there isn't a lot of free chemo running around. Eventually it won't work and they end it. But we're not sure where they are until they decide to inform us. It's all guess work. I would assume that if there was something unbelievably bad going on, like patients having severe issues because of the treatment, they'd have to tell us. We know patients perishing is unfortunately part of this process to given the required state they are in. So it would have to be treatment related and we have not heard anything. So it's probably safe to say they've been dosing at high levels and there are no treatment related deaths. But there's likely other toxicity events and they are doing what the trial says they can or can't do around those. Once again, a clarification in the new year would sure be helpful!
PWIB123 wrote: Forgive my lack of knowledge in this space, but based on this suggestion, I would have expected to hear of several more Grade 4 (I think is what I read previously) events with neutropenia. Since we've only heard of the one, does that mean they were able to avoid disclosing the others somehow? I was thinking with "all comers" and a lack of a controlled target, that we would have heard of additional issues with toxicity, but we haven't. Why would that be?