Enbridge Inc T.ENB

RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:But Good Citizens In Canada Don't Need Guns, Right ?

[yggdrasill]

It's easy to claim something is "a mess of regurgitated propaganda" and it's another to refute it. I don't see any counterarguments. I don't see any facts to support the idea that it's just propaganda. Because you can't provide any. Those are the facts. 

And I still don't see an answer from either you or Fiddy to my very simple question. 

As for gun crimes increasing in Canada, it's true. I can't deny that. But two points temper that fact. One, the police needs to do its damn job. Prevent illegal guns from crossing the border. Break up gangs. Two, owning a firearm actually increases your risk of gun violence:

Suicide rates for men are 8x higher for men owning a gun.
Suicide rates for women are a staggering 35x higher for women owning a gun.
People who live with gun owners are 2x as likely to die by homicide.
Toddlers with guns regularly kill more Americans per year than terrorists.
74% of school shooters obtained their guns from home or a relative's home.
Gun theft is on the rise in Canada. 

So how can more guns be the answer? Gun violence has increased in Canada. That's true. But it has also increased in the US even though gun sales have gone through the roof. Clearly, gun ownership has not prevented a rise in crime, but it has increased gun violence. I feel I need to repeat that: laxer gun laws and increased gun sales did NOT lower crime. Increased gun ownership DID increase gun violence (and therefore crime). Increased gun ownership has no tangible benefit and serious risks. 

Of all high income countries, the one with the highest gun ownership rates, the highest number of guns, and the laxest gun laws is the one with the worst gun violence epidemic. It's pretty clear to everyone. EVERY high income country has pretty much put an end to mass shootings and tamped down gun violence through strict control of firearms. So you want to ignore policies that work everywhere in the world to adopt the policies of the ONLY high income country in the world which has failed to control gun violence? How does that make any sense at all?

NPCexe wrote: I've never seen such a mess of regurgitated propaganda, my goodness. And you said you live in Canada? You mean where all the gun control keeps increasing and yet it has translated into higher gun crimes yoy? The liberals must love you, just checks off the box every election without even blinking. At least they emailed him some talking points. Next he will tell us that inflation is a good thing. Or how windfall taxes will be good for ENB.

yggdrasill wrote: I know the saying Fiddy. But I've been providing actual facts throughout. You can't even answer why you want to make Canada more like the US.

You can't deny that the US experiences more gun violence than Canada and the Western World. 
You can't deny that firearms are the leading cause of death for US children.
You can't deny that owning a gun puts households at higher risk of gun violence.
You can't deny that the NRA has become corrupt.
You can't deny that the NRA has become radical.
You can't deny that the US had less gun violence when it had common sense gun control laws.
You can't deny that ending the ban on assault weapons dramatically increased school shootings.
You can't deny that ending the ban on assault weapons made mass shootings more deadly.
You can't deny that allowing the mentally ill, criminals, and terrorists to own guns makes no one safer.
You can't deny that 77% of mass shooters in the US purchased their guns legally.

So I'll repeat the question even if I know you can't answer: Why would you want Canada to experience the horrors that the US is experiencing and has experienced since it abolished its gun control laws?

And I'll add another. If the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, then why didn't the Secret Service allow guns at the NRA's most recent conference which Trump spoke at? 
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/may/26/guns-banned-nra-convention-during-trump-speech-rep/

That's the Washington Times, just so you don't complain about the source. It's because guns are dangerous. The best security service in the world recognizes that banning guns is more effective than having a room full of "good" guys with guns.

And, because I really want to stamp out every last ember, in 1983, 54,000 drivers were involved in fatal car crashes due to alcohol. The number kept rising until it reached 62,000 in 1988. Then the trend reversed, and in 2019 it had fallen back to 51,000. This is in spite of the US population increasing, and in spite of an increase in cars on the road. So how did the US reverse the trend? Did they do it by loosening regulations like they have for guns? No. Of course not. They increased education campaigns, made penalties for impaired driving harsher, increased road blocks for testing, and revoked licenses. They reversed the trend through common sense regulation and enforcement. Could they have stopped it by forbidding driving altogether? Yes. But driving is essential to most people's daily lives. Shooting isn't. 

Canada doesn't need the US's guns. It needs an effective police.

FiddyFiddyOddzz wrote: *UNGH* - You've completely missed the point.  I give up.  There's an old saying that says never argue with a moron, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.  You win.

Yggdrasill wrote:"Well thanks for proving my point then, Fiddy. It is indeed true that the NRA is corrupt. And that is a bad thing. It shows that they have no morals, and it shows that their radicalization has more to do with putting money in their pockets than anything else. 

As for your analogy, good one! Well, until you realize that your solution to drunk drivers is to make every driver drunk! Got a drunk driving problem? Make every driver drunk! Got a gun problem? Give everyone a gun! Great solutions Fiddy. What could go wrong."