JL Deposition Chapter 7... wherein JL insists that it doesn't matter if he does not have any titles ...
The Hearing was attended by Joaquin Plaza, Alvaro Vives and Nicolas Luco, attorneys for the defense, Juan Guillermo Torres, attorney for the plaintiff, Jorge Lopehandia, absolvent, and Fernando Narbona, Judicial Receiver
Questions by Fernando Narbona. Answers by Jorge Lopehandia.
NL: Question 19, Mr. Fernando, it will be reformulated and we will reformulate based upon the answer you have given …
FN: Go ahead, attorney.
JT: What does 19 say [unintelligible]? If …
FN: It states: Indicate whether any of the court judgments issued on the occasion of the three previous questions refer to not paying the mining patents.
JT: But, does it say that in the exhibits?
FN: Yes, because there is a part of the last question that was not asked because it was “in the negative”, which it was not.
JT: Perfect, he answered.
NL: Yes, what happens is that if we are not going to continue the debate, we were going to present the question to you, but that could go on forever. I’m going to change the question. Just ask if any of these mining claims were declared expired or canceled for non-payment of the mining patents.
JT: Perfect. Yes, ask it.
JL: And that’s the question you ask me?
FN: Yes, that’s the question.
- I know that payment of the mining patents in the areas were stopped when the Stock Exchange began the scam and when the Government of Chile began the scam at the CDE level, we were bored, we became bored of lack of respect that mining had, and the responsibility for the payments is the company’s, not mine as the lawyer says, “Jorge Lopehandia stopped paying”, no, remove that from your question and remove that from the record. It was not up to me to pay anything, only to receive the fees of my option. The one who was forced to maintain my mining property is the contracting company and the stock exchange who is the employers of Claro & Co. and Felipe Ossa.
NL: Mr. Jorge, I’m going to repeat the question because perhaps I did not explain it well. The question is not whether you paid or did not pay the mining patents. The question is whether any court ruling declared those mining claims canceled or expired for non-payment of the mining patent.
- No, I have not even given myself the job of reviewing that because I feel totally disappointed in everything that happened, and I am going to go over the top. I’m not going to try to see what happened, the little root of the conchinchina, [he means that he is not interested in the details] I am going to go to the center of the core, and the center of the core is that those responsible for the payments are the mining company that contracted me and the Stock Exchange. When the Exchange interrupts the mining company’s payments, it is only the responsibility of the Exchange not to have paid, and the exchange is your employer, they paid you so that the title was better, more real, but it is false what you did. So, I didn’t pay. I didn’t have to pay. The company wanted to pay, but the Stock Exchange did not let it and the Stock Exchange did not let me pay for the properties and preferred to pay you to create the title.
FN: We’ll go on to the next: Indicate how much money you have received under the option contract since 2011.
- The money I have received has been almost 20% of what was contracted, and the rest is in debt, especially since the very uneducated intervention of Claro & Co. in Canada. I received money that is audited by the Stock Exchange, which is 5.5 million and from there I have received money here, there, perhaps another million, or about 6 million, out of a total payable of over $30 million. Claro & Co. and Felipe Ossa have created a loss of profit of millions of dollars from 2018 to date that I have not received. I have received accounting entries that are declared to the Stock Exchange and that have audit of accounting entries; but the money that I should have received since the time Felipe Ossa took the plane as a tourist or as a mining agent in Chile, since then to date I lack about 10 million. So, get ready for the Claro & Co. checkbook.
FN: Good. Another question. Indicate how Mountainstar obtained funds to make those payments.
- Mountainstar acquires the funds through the Stock Exchange through stock sales, but as it was suspended, it can only acquire money through its shareholders or people who intend to lend the money and have it paid back later when the case is won. Since, I am not the company, I cannot say how they collect their money. I can only say how I receive it or that I receive it and I receive bank guarantees.
FN: Next question: Indicate whether the option contract remains in force or if it was terminated.
- It is true. It remains in force and it was never terminated.
NL: Pass to A [unintelligible]
FN: Point A: If the option contract remains in force, explain how it could be fulfilled if Amarillos Norte and Amarillos Sur claims of 2011 are cancelled or expired.
- By the mere ministry of the law. The properties and the area belong to me and the verdict that Judge Reyes Kokisch gave me ordering the properties to be reborn and the Tesoros to die, that verdict was stolen with fraud from the Judge and I will not accept that a fraud to a Magistrate of Chile breaks my perfect title, my property or my rights. Whether the titles exist or not, just as it was between 1997 – when Villar’s titles died and Barrick let them die – until 2011 there were no mining titles of mine, they did not exist. Villar’s titles had been killed and my titles did not yet exist at all, but they were reborn in 2011 by the mere ministry of law because the law exists. They tried to kill me again and now they come out with that, “We killed you in ’97, we’re killing you in 2011”. I’m not going to be dead. No. I will have to prove that Barrick surveyed in my area with the four contracts of 1997 or I was defrauded with four fictious and imaginary contracts that carry five years and one day in prison for each of the executives who committed the damages. So, they cannot have it on both sides: either they give me my surveyed property or they defrauded me in fact and in law with four contracts with repertoire followed in the same notary public where the contract was signed for 10,000 pesos.
My titles and 2011 mining properties were granted by the Conservator of Mines of Vallenar and were in process of perfect constitution in the years 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015, which are the only years of interest to the Stock Exchange in the judgment against my client. And Claro’s question that if now, today, I have valid titles is a morbid question, because all they can ask is between 2012 and 2015, “Mr. Lopehandia, there are good titles, yes or no? Between the years 2012 and 2015, the mining property was destroyed, yes or no?” That’s why I’m asking for dates here. Do not come to me to put more scams on scams. Do not come to me to want to hinder the trial. Do not come to me to want to launder the truth. No, the answer is no, absolutely not, categorically no. The truth is that Judge Reyes Kokisch ordered the properties to be revived and in 2011, the Conservator of Mines with all his power, which is the only valid authority in Chile in all areas of the Pascua Lama Project is the Conservator of Mines, first granted me title in 2011 and 2012, in 719-2011 of the 2
nd Court of Vallenar, it denied title to Minera Nevada Limitada and Minera Nevada SpA, the same titles as always valid, Claro & Co and Barrick. When we are talking about title, let’s speak the truth and do not come to me to want to confuse the judges.
FN: Good. Another question …
NL: A simple clarification …
FN: Go ahead, please.
NL: Mr. Jorge, to date, the titles of Amarillo Norte and Amarillo Sur of 2011 are valid, yes or no?
- Some.
NL: Which ones?
- I don’t know the names, but some. I’m going to pass it on to my lawyer. I think there are one or two or three, or whatever, and if there are not and they have already been cancelled, I don’t care. I don’t care because titles don’t come and go in this case. The titles are a scam. It is a fraud that the Stock Exchange did of wanting to steal the titles, of not letting the company pay me, to steal the titles, and the maintenance of the titles, and that will not prosper in any court of law. Whether the titles exist, or the titles do not exist, the right is inalienable, the right of the discoverer of the first metallic mineral concession in the history of Chilean mining in Mina Pascua. Inalienable. I cannot change it. I am the first metallic mineral concession in the history of Chile in Mina Pascua and was legally contracted with four valid contracts that either give me the survey or is a legal mining scam with fictious and imaginary contracts. It doesn’t matter if I have a title today or if I don’t, the right has not been extinguished.
FN: Very well.
NL: Mr. Fernando, I need to ask a second clarifying question. He referred to the fact that the titles have been revived by the mere ministry of law. I would ask if you can clarify which law is the one that revived your titles.
- The verdict of Maria Isabel Reys Kokisch of June 2006, where she said, “The Tesoro concessions die, and the Amarillo Norte and Sur concessions are born in their place.” Within the courts, the Judge was cheated, vilely sued in civil and criminal matters, but the Conservator of Mines was able to verify that the real documents existed in the law and gave me title again in 2011, which is more than justification that the business I did with Barrick in 1997 was mine, and was, in fact, well done.
NL: In short, Mr. Jorge, to understand what you point out is that the 2009 verdict would have revived …
JL: 2006
NL: … of the 2006 would have put together your titles in the year 2011. Did I understand correctly?
- I was given the right by the 2006 decision and the four contracts of 1997, where the company promised to take my properties to survey. If they did not take them to survey, they defrauded me. Signing a false and imaginary contract and with the court decision of Madam Reyes Kokisch where the Conservator of Mines proved and verified that Barrick did not own the Tesoros, but Unda Llanos, gave me brand new titles in 2011 to do my business with the Canadians.
NL: I understand, Mr. Jorge. To close the question, therefore, the validity of your titles depends on the judgment of Judge Reyes Kokisch, right?
JL. No, the validity of my titles depends on the fact that I was the discoverer in 1996. The validity of my titles depends on the fact that I shook hands with John Lill in the offices of Providencia and we agreed to do the Pascua Lama Project together and I gave him my mining property in reliability, which he kidnapped. That kidnapping led him to constitute the Tesoro concessions that are number two in the history of Chile’s mining, in terms of metallic mining concessions. For Barrick Gold Corporation to exist, Claro & Co. and Felipe Ossa came to Canada to give validity to the Tesoro concessions, and I say: no, by only the ministry of the law is there a transfer of titular right of the Conservator of Mines of Vallenar in 2011 determined that the judge had been defrauded and criminally sued with false testimony. That is why he gave me the title and my titles are valid even if they do not exist. There is the right because the legal right at this time neither you, Claro, or Barrick has been able to eliminate from the history of mining in Chile.
NL: Mr. Jorge, to understand well, consequently, the judgment of Reyes Kokisch is irrelevant for you to the validity of your titles.
- Judge Reyes Kokisch’s verdict was relevant, it is not relevant because Judge Reyes Kokisch’s verdict was stolen with deceit, court scam, stolen with libel and false testimony, and, moreover, the theft of the Kokisch decision was perfected in Canada by Claro & Co. and by Felipe Ossa accusing the Magistrate that she was practically a swindler. That is what Felipe Ossa gave to the stock exchange and the sentiment of the stock exchange acquired from the judge is the same and was reflected in the factum that the BCSC laid against my client, which is going to be aired in September 2022, whose factum I cut to pieces and sent it to the Ministry of Finance of Canada, Minister of Finance of British Columbia, to the Stock Exchange, to all the regulators, to the courts of Chile and the Canadian Mounted Police. My destruction of the factum with all the lies that Felipe Ossa said that were used by the Securities Commission to defraud me and I object to the scam.
NL: Mr. Jorge, please listen well. The verdict of Magistrate Reyes Kokisch was rendered null and void by virtue of false testimony by whom?
- The false testimony of CMN SpA, the false testimony in the Civil Courts that one day Llanos was not known to Barrick or CMN SpA was ex parte and my theory is confirmed with the affidavit of Unda Llanos saying that he was an employee of CMN SpA in 1995. They defrauded the judge. They were criminally defrauded in 2010 when Luis Hermosilla Osorio files the lawsuit and says, “Compania Minera Nevada SpA owns the Tesoro concessions.” To be an owner, you not only have to say it, you have to be. From saying to doing, there is a long way. Therefore, I ask you to show me when CMN SpA acquired title to the Tesoro concessions. It was the year 2018. They acquired it retroactively and in Chile the retroactive right does not exist and that was not what Felipe Ossa said here in Canada. What he said was, “Unda Llanos contracted with CMN SpA. CMN Spa has always owned the Tesoros.”
Sorry? Always? The title of the property in Chile in the mining property is known by the marginal annotation and in the titles of the Tesoros, the marginal annotations never, never has been any of the CMN, nor S.A., nor Limitada, before 2018, before the affidavit of Felipe Ossa in May 30, 2017. When Felipe Oss and Claro & Co. produced the affidavit for the Canadian stock exchange, only I am on the Tesoro titles until the next year. You say in 2017 that CMN SpA is the owner of the Tesoros and you can’t prove it. Try it for yourselves, go get the titles and prove to me that at the time Felipe Ossa signed his affidavit and Claro & Co. let him come to Canada, those Tesoro titles or Barrick or any of its subsidiaries were on the title on May 30, 2017, when he signed the affidavit. He signed it in fraud and anything you tell me and try to throw on me, it will not prosper. I can’t stand fraud. Show me that on May 30, 2017, the Tesoros had already been acquired by CMN SpA so that your document is perfect, and if you do not have a public deed that on May 30, 2017 I was not on the Tesoro titles as a holder on the sidelines and that it was actually Barrick and CMN, I will concede everything you want, but if you don’t, owe me anything I ask for. So go look for the Tesoro titles in the name of Barrick or in the name of any of subsidiaries at the time of you exposing the criminal affidavit you made against me.
FN: Satisfied with the answer. We are moving on.
NL: I am not satisfied, but let us continue, Mr. Fernando, for the sake of time.