RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:NEW FRONT: AMMONIA ICEs Are A MASSIVE THREAT To EVs ztf
we both agree that transitioning to NH3 energy is a workable and easier way than going full steam into solar and wind that require digging up whole bunch of new toxic materials to make the battery. I'm aware of nuclear and hydro power as viable energy source but I was debating solar/wind vs fossil fuel, saying that the full cycle NH3 production using wind/solar energy would be no better than the current HP process in term of energy efficiency and meeting the global NH3 demand
ztransforms173 wrote: mrbb - (12/21/2023 2:03:36 AM) RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:NEW FRONT: AMMONIA ICEs Are A MASSIVE THREAT To EVs
I can be elon musk and say every production process on this earth can be improved if ample supply of cheap and clean electricity are ready and available. Problem we don't have that. Only angle i can see here is if chemist able to come up with a super duper catalyst to convert N2 and water into high output ammonia that can make a dent on the +150 million metric tons annual demand of ammonia. I'm not holding my breath on that.
With renewables like wind and solar, it's back to the same old dilemma, it is interruptable power. A commericial ammonia plant can't run just on sunny or windy periods. By the time you tack on bank and bank of battery, the full cycle energy and pollution ircle to get to this set up would likely no better than the overall efficiency of the Haber Bosch process which the article said running at ~50%. The CO2 emission from the HB process can be addressed by CCS, NG out, GHG in to depleting gas reservoir, by same people who know produced the NG, they sure know how to shove CO2 back in. It an EOR on NG recovery as well.
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- I ALREADY gave you EXAMPLE of NEWLY-DEVELOPED COMMERCIAL TECHNOLOGY using Anion Exchange Membrane (AEM) electrolysis producing HYDROGEN GAS at 150KW INPUT ELECTRIC POWER which is MUCH MORE EFFICIENT than the GIGANTIC ENERGY-INTENSIVE ALKALINE ELECTROLYSERS and MORE SUSTAINABLE than the PROTON EXCHANGE MEMBRANE (PEM) ELECTROLYSERS {requiring hard to get and expensive platinum and iridium metals}
- if they are going to CARBON TAX the HABER-BOSCH process to produce ammonia than these FACILITIES will SHIFT to JURISDICTIONS with PLENTY of HYDRO and/or NUCLEAR POWER just like ALUMINUM SMELTERS did a century ago with HYDROELECTRIC POWER
- you are NEGLECTING HYDRO and NUCLEAR ENERGY as a POWER SOURCE for LARGE-SCALE ammonia production plants
- what I am telling you is that there is NEW TECHNOLOGY that SHIFTS ammonia production from MASSIVE ENERGY-INTENSIVE CENTRAL FACILITIES with HUGE CO2 FOOTPRINT to LOCALIZED AMMONIA ON DEMAND with MODERATE electrical grid requirements that are PRESENTLY-SCALABLE up to 3,000 liters of ammonia production PER DAY
* this is MORE THAN ENOUGH for MOST SMALL and MEDIUM farms to get the ammonia they NEED
- like I said , HIGHER PRODUCTION RATES will require MORE INTENSIVE INDUSTRIAL SCALE R&D and they will NOT USE the HABER-BOSCH process
* this is something that is FEASIBILE but requires LARGE and SKILLED resources to DEVELOP
- so YES, ammonia is CRITICAL FUEL if you want to TAKE CARBON out of the EQUATION
z173