RE: red_deerBubbachuk,let's continue on with some of your other statements made in your earlier posts.
Here's a little math for you:
$5,000,000 * 11 Darrens = 10,000 * $50,000 contributing to the bottom line TWU members
Where is the bigger bang for you buck?
BTW, Currently managment to non-managment ratio is about 1:1, so do you really want to get into a numbers war?!
Managment by my definition is anyone out of scope of the union. Basically owned by the company and at it's beck and call 24 hours a day 7 days a week, or they risk termination or demotion. The numbers are about 1:1 these days.
Actually according to company pay .com (https://www.companypay.com/executive/compensation/darren_entwistle_4251824_TU.asp))
He DID NOT get all of this in stock options. He got $4.25 million in salary NOT INCLUDING stock options!
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST!
Your case is similar to that of the arguments of George W Bush, he floods the media with lies and distorted truths, until the public actually believe him. THe bigger the lie, the more it is repeated.
BUBBACHUK, this last assertion you made is rather ironic since you seem to be putting to good use that same George Bush strategy upon an analysis of your last post!
Wherein you stated ''So instead of $5 million... the number is actually... $5 million... Wow! thanks for clearing that up for me Sumo!''
Now Bubbachuk, why do you continue to use that $5 million figure when not only both your own website link but also my very detailed breakdown of exactly what Darren was paid in 2003 clearly shows that he got only $4,251,824? Now I don't know what other folks think, but I think that it is a stretch for you to continue to insist that Darren got paid $5 million!
Then, continuing your denial of any facts which don't support your fundamental position that one Darren equals 100 TWU workers, you stated the following ''It could be dabloons or camels that the ELT is paid in... the fact is that the number stands. Who gives a rats butt just how the dollars get to his pocket. The bottom line is that at the end of the business day, $5 million is the number. Or is this money free?''
What you are attempting to avoid and deny above are the FACTS which I dug out from the last Telus Information Circular! To re-iterate.....
So where did that total compensation figure of $4,251,824 for Darren come from? Well here is how that was done. In addition to the total 2003 base salary/bonus of 1,387,006, Darren got 95,915 for an interest free loan deal with Telus plus 20,700 for unused vacation time. But the real kicker was the $2,748,203 he got for something called Restricted Stock Units (RSU Plan II) All of which adds up to that 4,251,824.
Now exactly what are those RSUs? Well from the description given in the Information Circular, it appears that they are sort of a hybrid type of stock option which ties about 65% of Darren's 2003 total compensation to the ups and downs of the value of Telus non-voting class A shares. And Telus has the option of paying that 2,748,203 of value out in either new non-voting shares from the Telus treasury or in cash paid either directly to Darren or used to buy non-voting shares in the open markets.
So, once again, you see that Darren's actual CASH compensation for 2003 was only 1,503,621 or 35% of that huge 4,251,824 figure (rounded up to 5,000,000 by you!)
Bubbachuk, you asked who gives a rats butt just how the dollars get to his pocket. Well even you should be able to comprehend that Telus and Telus shareholders definitely would care since Telus only had to pay in CASH a total of only 35% of the total compensation paid to Darren last year! The rest of his compensation was with those hybrid stock options called RSUs (Restricted Stock Units) which, by the way, can't be cashed in until January 1, 2006.
So, in answer to your question, yes the bulk (65%) of Darren's 2003 compensation package is indeed 'free money' Free in that it doesn't need to be paid until 3 years down the road and, most significantly for the Telus bottomline, does NOT HAVE TO BE PAID IN CASH!
But of course you don't want to accept these facts since they throw that one Darren equals 100 TWU members right out the window. The figure is more like less than 25 TWU members to equal Darren's actual 2003 CASH compensation. And that would be the case even taking into account the cash benefit costs of those TWU members incurred by Telus.
Oh, and about your lament about not getting any pay increase in the past 5 to 6 years, just keep in mind that juicy retroactive pay which Billyus keeps referring to! And besides, the only TWU members who didn't get any pay increases would have only been the ones with the most seniority stuck at the top of the pay scale! Sometimes seniority doesn't help since all the TWU newbies would have been getting their annual pay increases the last 5 to 6 years as they moved up the pay scale.
Bubbachuk, you also got all frothy from my average employee compensation cost FACTS from the Telus financial statements.
Oh and that number you quoted is a bit misleading:
"Also gleaned from the Information Circular was that at the end of 2003 there were 23,817 FTE (full time equivalent) Telus employees. And their total annual compensation costs, including benefits, works out to 1,859,600,000, or an average of $78,078.68 per employee"
The average would include management (who HAVE had regular increases in pay over the past 5 years) as well as the unionized employees. A very scewed number indeed. The average GROSS salary for a union employee is much much much lower. It has to be the managers brining up that average, as well as the huge amounts of overtime that is a direct result of the reduction in 6500 staff. Those numbers are meaningless to the argument at hand. So please don;t just go plugging in numbers to fit your little pompus rant.
First off Bubbachuk, using your own 1:1 definitions of union vs management, it would appear that there would be 11,908 TWU and 11,908 'management' employees to equal that 23,817 FTE (full time equivalent) figure right from the Telus financial statements? I continue to think that your perspective on this one is really out to lunch! Basically you are following yet another George Bush tactic, in that you classify all Telus employees as either with you and the TWU or they are not (and thus management) And are they all the enemy and axis of evil within Telus too? LOL!
Now after I showed that the average CASH compensation cost is in fact $78,078.68 per Telus employee, you didn't like this one bit since it really trashed that one Darren equals 100 TWU workers spin of yours!
But I do have to agree with you just a bit in that the above average figure does of course take all those highly paid managers into account which thus tends to inflate the true TWU average. However, equally true is that there are a lot of temporary and low paid position still in Telus which woud then drag down that average. So the average of $78,078.68 likely remains pretty close to what you and your top pay scale TWU buddies currently cost Telus each year.
And before you send me another rant back saying I am dead wrong, just consider that the above average INCLUDES all the cash costs to Telus for all of the following: your life insurance premiums, your long term disability premiums, your dental/optical plan premiums, your drug cost premiums, your basic provincial health care premiums, your UIC premiums, your CPP premiums and your defined benefit pension plan premiums. And, as you mentioned, all your overtime payouts.
Now if you take all of the above, and there may be even more, from that $78,078.68 average, then you will likely end up pretty close to what you called your GROSS pay? Now don't you? And you should be able to see that my numbers were anything but meaningless, as you put it?
And Bubbachuk, by now I really don't think I need to address this statement of yours! '' My argument stands, your numbers just go to prove what I said before. How the numbers are derived is irrelevant.''
Now do I?
And I also really don't want to open up yet another can of worms by asking you to show how you believe Darren got a 35% pay raise last year! Is this another George Bush one? Like your 1 Darren to 100 TWU and your 1:1 ratios? Or rounding $4,251,824 up to $5,000,000?