Noah Poponak
So in 2021, even after significant debt pay down with the cash you have, the interest expense will still be higher than EBITDA. And so as we think through the forward, in continuing to repair the balance sheet, the challenges, you can't have positive free cash flow until the interest expense is less than the EBITDA, but you can't pay down the debt until you have positive free cash flow. So one, should - do we need to think about a few years of cash flow that's slightly negative or only slightly positive until you can ramp the EBITDA? And/or is there an opportunity to refinance what you have? It seems like you could have significant interest savings, but I'm not sure where you are with the cost to refinance.
Bart Demosky
Noah, it's Bart. Thank you for the question. And it's a good question. I mean, the first thing I would say is that our goal is to perform and generate free - to be cash flow positive at the lower volumes that we're seeing today. So when you think about the cost reduction activities and the $400 million of benefit that we see by 2023, and that's the full $400 million in 2023, that's how we're describing it, that will bring us a long way towards being free cash flow positive. So obviously, it's somewhere between this year and 2023 is when we start to see ourselves come into a free cash flow positive position. There's a few factors, other factors that are going to support this position.
Obviously, we plan to keep our CapEx relatively low and stable. We're in and around that $200 million level right now. We do expect '22 on a free cash flow basis to be better than '21. And as we start to generate more positive and free cash flow, we'll be in a position to pay down more of our debt and bring the interest expense down. We're working today on our cash deployment plans and how we'll use that money to reduce our debt and bring interest expense down, and we will be in a position to share more on that with you at our Investor Day on the 4th of March. So hopefully, that's helpful.
Noah Poponak
That's helpful. Just one clarification in there for 2021. With the - you've mentioned not all of the proceeds are available, and it sounds like that's at least all or partially related to shares from Alstom. How much of the proceeds are available to deploy in 2021?
Bart Demosky
It will be north of $3 billion will be available. We've got - the shares themselves today are worth about $600 million. Those become available to us in May, and we'll be deploying that cash at that time. There is a little bit of the cash that will be tied up for a period of time in '21 as well, but we'll be working to free that up and deploy into debt repayment as well. So it will be north of $3 billion, but again, a little more color probably on Investor Day for you, okay?