Bombardier Inc. T.BBD.A

Segments of Bbd with big growth potential

[bbdaerospacecnd]

Besides bizjets, bbd has currently other segments poised for significant growth.
1. aftermarket ; Bbd currently serves only 35% of its 48000+ planes . They invested heavily in that segment and opened state of the art service centres around the world. Revenue could be doubled if 70% achieved 

2. Specialized aircraft- medevac planes and GlobalEye Saab. UAE got 3 planes (2 more to be delivered ), US ordered 6, Swedish Airforce committed to buy , Finland might follow. Each plane sells at $500 mln+.  There could be more orders to come from other countries 
https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/saab-uae-third-globaleye-aircraft/

[Shamhorish]

bbdaero, thank yes, agrre about after revenu from maitenance servics yes, but medevac, and Globaleye, i think bbd bbd sell the naked jet to the ones that install the elwectronique equimpents or medical .... so it is just like selling 2 or 3 plan of the used type global 6000 or ... and order for those globaleye or medevac is rare, 

[Shamhorish]

on the other hand, i like to Add that if the World econonomy stay as is now withiout further problems (like a new virus attack, midle east ware, big India China war...etc) i trust the management in place now will succed in getting bbd to a better financial position, thus better rating from Fitch and others which will lead to better terms and lower borrowing interest rate so, it is hard now, but

[Grugar]

BBD will be back on track in 2023.

[PabloLafortune]

Excellent. But keep in mind, Bombardier has a lot of debt, they are paying a lot of interest, and the stock market (for most companies at least...) is looking for an improved financial picture before we can see any material share price appreciation.  The motherhood and apple pie stuff - new markets, trust management - just won't cut it. And while a $100M improved EBTIDA, a backlog that is

[MartinStock]

I might be asking a stupid question but if bombardier has or had 5.8B why doesn't he pay half or all the debt and take another loan again with a lower interest rate?

[Micmar]

I think that what they are doing right now.    

[Micmar]

I think that what they are doing right now.    

[Micmar]

Sorry for the double posting.  ?what appended.

[Shamhorish]

martin,here is how (i think) the situation is bbd owe right now about 9.5 billion (after paying the 750 facilty optained last aug ) bbd has access to 1.8 billion but forget about this amount will not be used to pay debt bbd got or will get total of about 3.6 billion out of which 0.6 billion are invested in Alstom shares that bbd can sell at profit or loss in or after may 2021, so forget about

[Jim99999]

A few questions for you, Shamhorish: Where did the repaid $750M come from? Where are you getting 3.6% from? If you were lending billions of dollars, would you charge 3.6% if you knew you could get 5%, or 6%, or 7%...? Do you think BBD will never go to the bond market again? Jim

[Shamhorish]

Jim, after reading post by BBDB859 ABOUT D BART his way of handling debt, interest etc are much better than what i visioned paying 30-35% of each long term debt and refinancing the rest at much lower rate is smart and yes, it is better for a bank or... to charge 7.5 or 5.5% thab charging 3.5% interest but who is borrowing now!!! if bbd pays long term debt, lenders will be stuck with billions

[Jim99999]

Shamhorish, this is nonsense. What makes you think that no one is borrowing now? Do you have any data to support this idea? Thousands of companies have debt coming due, and must roll it over just like BBD. This is not something unique to BBD. BBD has the upper hand? Are you serious? BBD needs the lenders, not the other way around. Lenders with billions of dollars did not get wealthy by being

[BBDB859]

Highlighted in yellow. I think that $350m in interest yearly is doable.  Not nitpicking but even $6B X 6% is only $360M yearly. Not 400M. I think their money will go a longer way if they only put down 35% to 40% downstroke and renue every one of the LTD maturities. They can get 5.5% in this lending climate. All this dumb Family has to do is start puting 35% down on each maturing JB LT loan

[Jim99999]

There are two things I don't like about this approach, BBDB859 1) There are ten maturity dates between now and 2034. Of the first five, totalling about $4.5B, one is at 8.75% (~$1.02B). The other four (~$3.5B) are at 5.75%-6.125%. The last five maturities, beginning Dec 2024, are at 7.35%-7.875%. I haven't ran the numbers yet, but I believe this approach will not bring interest expense

[Shamhorish]

how well management will face the LTD problem and high interest is the key can they renegotiat interest rate on expiring LTD???? as some put it out, why lenders would renegotiat interest rate ??  it is to lender advatage to charge high interest, stll bbd is in dire situation, why accept lower rate?? can they renegotiat interest rate on A LTD THAT IS expiring in a year or more???? what is

[lb1temporary]

It's almost all notes and bonds. These instruments had been sold to a wide range of buyers. They can't negotiate anything, there's no provision to change the agreements.  Bombardier have to reimburse them and try to sold new notes with better conditions.  Only few loans are syndicated with leaders and participants and provisions for changes like HPS. But it was reimbursed.

[B88profit]

Please notice that the most of junk bond they had  is callable.

[Shamhorish]

Ib1, thank you for your comment "They can't negotiate anything, there's no provision to change the agreements.  Bombardier have to reimburse them and try to sold new notes with better conditions. " that makes it harder for management, no way out, they must reimbourse  may be then, they can get new loan from new lender with lower rate to reimourse expiring debt!!

[BBDB859]

If that's right. Which I would doubt. Because when an institution does a placements for a loan. Whether the funds are from one individual or 1,000 different individuals, it's all the same. Let's  just say it's Goldman Sacks that does the placement.There may be 1000 individuals that are participents in the placement to get $1B. But the lender Goldman acts as it is one Mortgage

[lb1temporary]

If that's right. Which I would doubt. Because when an institution does a placements for a loan. Whether the funds are from one individual or 1,000 different individuals, it's all the same. Let's  just say it's Goldman Sacks that does the placement.There may be 1000 individuals that are participents in the placement to get $1B. But the lender Goldman acts as it is one Mortgage

[Shamhorish]

Ib1,  do you see the only option for bbd now to go fo CCAA? or do they still can find a legale way to reduce debt, inerest rate?

[B88profit]

The most bonds bombardier had is callable bonds which are known as a redeemable bond, is a bond that the issuer may redeem before it reaches the stated maturity date. A callable bond allows the issuing company to pay off their debt early. A business may choose to call their bond if market interest rates move lower, which will allow them to re-borrow at a more beneficial rate. Callable bonds

[Shamhorish]

B88, if that is the case, and as you said " most bonds bombardier had is callable bonds which are known as a redeemable bond, is a bond that the issuer may redeem before it reaches the stated maturity " then may be bbd can keep kicking the can down road while paying down % of each long term debt so for 2021 (debt  1.483 billions ) bbd may borrow 1 billion + use 0

[lb1temporary]

B88, You're right. Thanks. Reimbursement by new bonds with better conditions is the only way ( with CCAA) to change the debt service for Bombardier. But there's hurdle too. Bombardier is an CCC issuer. the market is thin for this kind of issuer. What will be the market appetite for BBD bonds ? Could they ask for Billions ? At significative better rates ? Not sure.

[Jim99999]

Shamhorish, please google: What is a bond?                                                      What is a callable bond?    &

[Shamhorish]

jim9, thank you for the advise it would also be nice to give your view as to how do you see bbd dealing with the debt, and what you expect on investor day

[BBDB859]

I agree on taking out the First at 8.75% right away Jim. Having said that. I think they could renegotiate the 5.75%-to 6.75% for the next four by paying off a 35-40% portion of that down to bring them both down to 5%. Total cash use there of $1.2B from our $3.6B on hand. But the new rate should come down to 5% for those first 5 collectively.  That will also leaves some money to be able to

[Shamhorish]

THE IDEA IAND APPROACH S GOOD, BUT IT SEEMS THAT INTEREST RATE CAN NOT BE NEGOCIATED  AS Ib1 said https://stockhouse.com/companies/bullboard?symbol=t.bbd.b&postid=32680190 LTD, it is mostly bonds, 

[Jim99999]

Thanks for the detailed response, BBDB859. I am not even really concerned about the first five maturities (except for the $1.02B @ 8.75% of course). I don't care if they just roll the full amounts over at the same rates. It's the more expensive back half that they can't afford to pay hundreds of millions in interest for years and years. I'm guessing that those bonds are callable,

[Shamhorish]

Jim, as you said it does not matter how they go it what is needed (as we small guys sees it) is to bring iterest payment below 400 million a year, preferably arround 350 mil doing it by ,,,or...or..., does not matter , interest payment must be manageable by BA

[MartinStock]

i thought bbd had a total debt of + ~ 10b. the sale to Altom was only 8.5b?

[Jim99999]

100% correct. What EM does over the next few months w/r/t the debt will make or break the company, IMO. I thought Fitch did a pretty good job in their final report of analyzing the challenges facing BBD, even if they do lean a bit toward a pessimistic point of view. Well worth reading, IMO. Their upgrade of the bonds made me wonder if that is why BBD repaid the credit facility early. Perhaps BBD

[bbdaerospacecnd]

  Bart:"we took a first step this past week towards repaying half of the $750 million drawn on the $1 billion secured facility and associated fees. This repayment is required upon the sale of BT and represents a good use of our capital, given the high cost of that facility." that does not sound like a cheap 3-4% loan. Maybe he refers to the prohibitive nature on sales efforts

[Jim99999]

I was surprised when I heard that, bbdaerospacecnd, because I am sure I read in a release that the variable rate was around 3.8%. After Bart said that, I looked for the release again, but could find nothing that actually mentioned the rate, so now I'm not sure. Regardless, that facility was very well secured with inventories and receivables. BBD will not be able to get billions of dollars in

[PabloLafortune]

Good analysis of what might be possible from a debt standpoint scenario. Fitch's analysis post Q4 is quite fair - pre Q4 I thought wasn't reasonable. Ideally they would raise equity. A warrant to existing shareholders might work, could raise $1.1B. Any shortfall because shareholders aren't buying shared could be taken up by other shareholders or ??? If you want to incentivize, then you