Largo Inc T.LGO

VRFB's starting to take-off as predicted

[kha341]

https://twitter.com/AimWarrenBuffet/status/1575091157176299520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

VRFB's starting to take-off as predicted. 3GWh of vanadium battery orders is huge.

[ceetong]

I wish it was true. However, it's a lone Twitter post coming from the probably worst performing executive in the energy storage business. Highly dubious IMO. I'm afraid the Chinese use their own Vanadium only. They have abundant Vanadium bearing slag coming from their steelmaking blast furnaces that normally is just thrown away. In case they need vast amounts of Vanadium, they start

[farwest]

Vanadiun from slag is not of high enough quailty to be uesd for electrolyte

[farwest]

Understanding the important applications of vanadium, it is essential to ensure the sustainable production and supply of vanadium. In nature, vanadium is found in the form of oxides, sulfides and phosphates which are associated with other metals such as iron, titanium, lead, aluminum, zinc, uranium, etc., as titanomagnetite, patronite, vanadinite, descloizite and carnotite [11]. Among them

[farwest]

Vanadium electrolyte is one of the critical component of VRFBs. The purity of this electrolyte has an impact on the electrochemical performance and cost of the battery. Using a high purity vanadium electrolyte is key to increasing battery performance, capacity, and efficiency. High purity means free from by-products and chemical residue that can often be left behind and negatively impact battery

[ceetong]

The Dalian VRFB is a cornerstone project for China's push into flow batteries (started 2016) utilizing domestic resources. They would not build these large systems without being able to supply them on their own. IIRC VRB (formerly Pu Neng, formerly Prudent Energy) and Rongke are the most important companies involved. "As part of the initial agreement, Pu Neng and Hubei Vanadium will

[farwest]

every pound of Vanadium sourced for their owm prodjects is a pound that won't be available for sale on the market.   

[ceetong]

If the Chinese produced this Vanadium anyway, you'd be right. But if it was purposely produced solely  to be used in this very Electrolyte (and otherwise not produced at all), then it would not have any effect on global Vanadium prices. Be honest, do you see any indication of rising V prices?

[EnglishTickler]

so you're saying China started production of V for the electrolyte of this battery, then stopped production when enough was produced for it? lol

[ceetong]

What I was saying is that China produces enough Electrolyte to feed the systems they build. Production volumes will match demand vor Chinese VRFBs over time thus no effect on global Vanadium prices. As you cann see in the chart. Unless we see a sharp rise in Vanadium prices and much increased volumes of Vanadium imported into Chinea, this remains a marketing story, just another carrot dangling in

[ThaYoda]

China prices have been rising again. I just thought it was interesting that you only posted the picture of Europe's prices when China's matter more to the SP.  Seems deceptive and unbalanced.

[ceetong]

Notwithstanding short-term fluctuations, global prices move in the same direction. And that direction was down in recent months. Down in the EU, the US and China/Asia as well. Highlighting a few minor upticks in China while downplaying a major, 6-months lasting global price slump seems deceptive to me.

[ceetong]

The price you quoted is for FeV which goes towards steel production. The price I quoted is for V2O5, which goes towards Electrolyte production and which is Largo's main product, too. Nothing "deceptive" about it. Demand from VRFBs would become visible in V2O5 prices first. I would like to see V demand grow substantially just like you do as I own 16k LGO and 1M BMN shares. However, I

[ceetong]

Of course V2O5 goes towards steel production, too. But FeV does not go towards Electrolyte production.

[ThaYoda]

But you posted Europe Vanadium prices. China's matter more. If China's Ferrovanadium is going up, then it's safe to assume that the same applies to V205, in China, Largo's biggest customer.  Also Europe is in the middle of a meltdown. China is pumping billions into infrastructure through stimulus.

[ceetong]

You have it wrong and this is why: When steel output goes up, consumption of V2O5 and FeV can go up whereas when VRFB demand is up, consumption of V2O5 will be up while consumption of FeV won't be affected. There just is no connect between FeV and FRFB so it doesn't make any sense to focus on FeV when you want to assess V demand from VFRBs.

[ceetong]

VRFB, that is.

[ceetong]

In recent days a couple gigantic VRFB projects in China have been announced. Yet again there is no reaction in the pricing of Vanadium whatsoever. What's more, Largo stock is down -4% on the day and down -10% vs. last week. The total disconnect between VRFB projects in China and global Vanadium prices is obvious.

[ThaYoda]

China is spending on infrastructure. Infrastructure requires power. China building massive VRFB's. Trust me, there a link. The trend is your friend, and China is focused on economic recovery and development. 

[ThaYoda]

Yes, I do see rising prices with China, Largo's biggest customer by far. Why no image of China prices from you after discussing China? 

[ThaYoda]

[img][/img]

[ceetong]

That's rising prices? LOL! Talk about rose-coloured glasses... I see rising prices back in February/March due to the war in Ukraina and falling prices thereafter.