LAKE SHORE GOLD CORP 6.25 PCT DEBS T.LSG.DB

ts9222

[HARJAY]

Thank you for bringing that attributes of EDV to our attn.. but I believe it would be more appropriate if you promote EDV's recent improving results on the EDV bulletin board and leave the promotion , comments, sharing of info and insight of Lakeshore Gold to the LSG bulletin board. Thank You !!

[SKRiderFan]

well ts you told me i was wrong when i said 352 mil in long term debt so i looked again and it got revised; its 375 mil in long term debt but to give you the benifit of dought it might be my eyesight so could someone else go to finanicals then quartly balance sheet and tell me if my eyesight is correct. you also commented if i like LSG 0 esp so took a look at EDV on yahoo and see a loss of .65 on

[ts9222]

Paid down to $260m here https://finance.yahoo.com/news/endeavour-mining-q2-2015-aisc-210000760.html "Based on the strong results in Q2 2015, a $20 million advance principal payment was made in July to further reduce the drawn amount on the revolving credit facility to $260 million" That negative was a non-cash writedown of assets which many miners also did. If lsg didn't do any

[Wolfin13]

Not $20 million................gee you can't even remember what you read......!!!! We have made a total of $40 million in advance payments so far this year to reduce the drawn balance on the facility to $260 million .  It remains our objective to continue reducing our outstanding debt from free cash flow during 2015.  

[ts9222]

You are the one with the reading comprehension problem. They paid down $20m after Q1 and another $20m after Q2. $20m plus $20m equals $40m if you have a math comprehension problem too.

[grammadux]

Ok my friend, I'll help you with the valuation basics: the formular is: Enterprise Value (EV) = Value of Equity (E) + Value of Debt (D) - Cash (C) So lets do the math for both companies now. LSG: 480 + 93 - 82 = 490 million CAD is the enterprise value of Lakeshore EDV: 210 + 264 - 52.7 = 421 million USD, so we need to convert to CAD now because EDV is reporting in US Dollars, to compare

[grammadux]

Just saw I made a minor mistake in my calcs 210 market cap of EDV is already in CAD, I mistakenly converted it again, only Debt and Cash needs to be converted The real Enterprise Value comes out at 485 Million CAD Both companies are almost equally valued! One last word on EDV: EDV Debt to Equity ratio is 0.955!! For LSG the ratio is 0.219 !!! In this gold bear market low debt level is king!

[ts9222]

I see you have better reading and math comprehension skills than some of the others on this lsg board :) How did you get the edv debt to equity ratio? From Q2 total equity is 494,5m. 264/494.5 = 0.53 It's dropping fast from last quarter as debt is paid down. Enterprise value is useful if another company is taking over lsg/edv by taking on the debt as well. Shareholders don't directly

[Wolfin13]

Well go to the EDV board and buy your face off in EDV...........if u believe in EDV Why are you here dude????

[ts9222]

People keep talking to me so i reply. If you believe in LSG so much you shouldn't be afraid of comparison with other companies. People aren't required to be married to a single company, people often buy more than one company. You can go to the EDV board and tell how great LSG is lol

[Flopticalcube]

Over the last 3 years LSG has outperformed EDV 7:1. The market clearly prefers LSG.

[ts9222]

Past performance is not equal to future performance. It would be great if people can get a time machine and go back to invest in past performance.

[Flopticalcube]

That is, in fact, false. Momentum propels winners higher and losers, like EDV, lower. The trend in LSG remains up and in EDV down.

[ts9222]

You can see what happens from looking at only price momentum without regard to earnings and valuation by looking at the Chinese markets. First a lot of momentum, then panic selling lol

[Flopticalcube]

The only panic selling here has been in EDG. LOL! Really... let your winners run and cut your losers.

[ts9222]

LSG isn't going to continue to have momentum if it continues to have bad earnings. Notice in their news release how they try to hide Q2 earnings into H1 because Q2 looks so bad standing by itself. Their guidance for the year is just under $950 AISC which means Q1 was a one-off and Q2 is closer to the norm.

[grammadux]

Of course the enterprise value is important for shareholders. The company has to pay the interest for its debt and pay back the principal in the end. This is cost! So lower earnings. So production is not the best indicator, with the debt of EDV, LSG could have the same numbers. For debt to equity ratio I used total liabilities. I didn't say long term debt to equity, in this case also the LSG

[ts9222]

The bottom line earnings number already has interest cost subtracted from it, and the earnings is still much higher than LSG. EDV has low interest based on LIBOR. You said "Debt to Equity ratio" in your previous post, not liability to equity ratio. Financial sites commonly use debt to equity ratio, i've never seen a liability to equity ratio. Financial statements list both total

[grammadux]

You desperately try to make Edv look good and talk their high debt numbers smaller. The LSG ratio of 0.219 is also calculated against total liabilities! First of all debt means not only long term debt! You are always referring to long term debt numbers only but a company has also short term borrowings or leasing obligations which also bear interest! Therefore taking total liabilities is a more

[Flopticalcube]

Its not just LSG, he pumps his little loser on other boards too.

[ts9222]

If LSG is so great then you shouldn't be afraid of comments from people with a different point of view.

[ts9222]

That last comment was replying to Floptical not grammadux. Talking to 2 people at once mixes msgs.

[ts9222]

Then why do financial sites use debt to equity ratio and not your Total Liabilities to equity ratio? Total liabilities include accounts payable, and your ratio would ignore accounts receivable and other assets. From LSG Q2 financial statement Current liabilities 38,850 Non-current liabilities 107,558 Total liabilities 146.4m Equity 487,080 Your ratio Total Liabilities/Equity for LSG = 146.4m

[ts9222]

For example, if you use a Total Liabilities to equity ratio including accounts payable, that ratio ignores current assets like inventories, gold, stockpiles, parts and supplies. edv has much higher inventories than lsg Q2 EDV 97.4m LSG 22.3m. This can be for things like fuel oil which edv likely uses more of stored in 4 countries. Total Liabilities to equity ratio isn't meaningful if it

[ts9222]

If you are making up your own ratio Total Liabilities to equity ratio that ignores assets, then i can make up the opposite ratio Total Assets to equity ratio that ignores liabilities. That's the other side of the coin, what works for the goose also works for the gander. Then i can say LSG is a bad investment because it has such a low Total Assets to equity ratio lol.

[grammadux]

Now you are making a fool of yourself. You ignore basic accounting principles. Assets are on the other side of balance sheet. They are either financed by debt or by equity. So if a company has higher debt it MUST have higher assets! As it is the case with EDV the finance almost half of their assets with debt!! Dude you are a fool. A low ratio in case is a good thing not a bad thing. Lets do

[grammadux]

So hope the chart works now

[ts9222]

Another chart that shows past history as if past history equals future profits. All your criticisms of edv doesn't change the fact that lsg has much lower earnings and cashflow. If lsg continues to have the same bad numbers as Q2 then your chart won't look as pretty in the future.

[ts9222]

You are the fool trying to fake ratios. "Total Assets to equity ratio Lets do the math: LSG = 633/487=1.3   EDV = 966/494=1.95 What do these numbers mean? I put it as simple as possible so even you understand it! For every $ 10 million in equity LSG is using $ 3 million of debt. And for every $ 10 million in equity EDV is using $ 9.5 million of debt." Total Assets to

[grammadux]

OK one last reply from my side. Just for educational purposes. Hopefully you get the relationship between assets and debt/equity now. Yep the numerator is assets not debt, you got this one right. Lets make a simple example: Company X has $ 10 million in assets, $ 5m debt and $ 5m equity The ratio would be 10/5 = 2 (also called equity multiplier) So what does this mean? For every dollar in

[ts9222]

The debt to equity ratio that the financial sites are using is Total Debt/Equity, not Total Liabilities to equityhttps://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=EDV.TO+Key+Statistics Those are old numbers showing a 65.74 ratio, it has since dropped to 50's range. It is nowhere near 95 that you want to say. Those are real numbers of a real stock. That first investopedia link also uses Total Debt/Equity