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Bullboard - Stock Discussion Forum Suncor Energy Inc T.SU

Alternate Symbol(s):  SU

Suncor Energy Inc. is a Canada-based integrated energy company. The Company's segments include Oil Sands, Exploration and Production (E&P), and Refining and Marketing. Its operations include oil sands development, production and upgrading; offshore oil production; petroleum refining in Canada and the United States; and the Company’s Petro-Canada retail and wholesale distribution networks... see more

TSX:SU - Post Discussion

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Post by Obscure1 on Sep 23, 2021 9:39am

geez

I have cut out some stuff from the article below to make it shorter.

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The UK’s gas crisis comes as part of a bigger natural gas phenomenon taking place worldwide, as prices skyrocket and firms do not know how to respond. With Europe and North America looking to shift away from reliance on fossil fuels to renewable alternatives, will it be possible to make the switch sooner or will we continue to rely on gas even as it becomes less financially viable?


As gas prices soar across the whole of Europe, reaching their highest levels since 2014, the UK gas industry has been particularly hard hit. Some major contributors to the trend include greater competition for deliveries of natural gas between Europe and Asia, outages at U.S. production plants following Hurricane Ida, and stricter carbon market rules within the E.U. In addition, gas inventories have already depleted more rapidly this year thanks to an extremely cold European winter and the strong energy demand rebound seen with the easing of Covid restrictions. 

Rising gas prices in the UK reached €291.18 per megawatt-hour this Monday and are expected to climb as high as €1,083.78 should the trend continue. The UK representative body for the oil and gas industry, OGUK, announced that wholesale energy prices increased by 70 percent in August. And as North Sea output is expected to fall by half by 2027, the UK’s reliance on imports is expected to rise further adding to this trend. 

Increasing gas prices has also had a knock-on effect on UK industry as two sites, which together produce 40 percent of the country’s fertilizer, have been forced to close because of record gas prices. As the easing of Covid restrictions gave hope to struggling industries, this presents yet another hurdle.

This could have a serious impact on the UK green policy plans, as the combination of rising gas prices and a period of low wind speeds has forced the government to approve energy production from Britain’s old coal generators to bridge the gap. This is concerning for a country that aims to stop all coal generation by 2024.

Following international pressure from the IEA and the UN, the UK government has begun to encourage households to switch from gas heaters and cookers to more sustainable alternatives. Utility companies have also jumped on board the push to tax gas higher and reduce electricity costs to encourage the switch. The UK’s fifth largest supplier, Octopus Energy Ltd., which provides both gas and electricity to around 2 million customers, has made its stance on the issue clear. “I just don’t want to sell any,” Greg Jackson, chief executive officer of Octopus stated. Adding “It’s bad for the planet. The quicker we can move away from it, the better.”

Related: UK Power Sector Could See Tidal Wave Of Bankruptcies

The government, with support from utility companies, hopes to drive this change sooner rather than later. It expects to install 600,000 heat pumps a year by 2028, an increase of 20 times from the current rate, to replace existing gas boilers. However, the high cost of these pumps means the government needs to incentivize the purchase by offering lower electricity costs to consumers.

There is also talk of eventually repurposing much of the UK gas network to create a 2,000km hydrogen system, at a cost of £1 billion. The network is expected to use carbon capture and storage (CCS) technologies to produce and transport the hydrogen needed to fuel household heating systems. This supports the UK government’s aim for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050.  

All these moves are likely to prove necessary should gas prices keep rising, but will the renewable alternatives be available for wider consumption if the timeline is sped up? Examples such as the failure to produce enough wind energy and this summer and Big Oil’s limited use of CCS and other innovative technologies suggest not. NOTE: Alberta is pushing hard on CCS

We are now currently seeing the triple whammy of high natural gas prices, low-wind levels driving up electricity prices, and high fuel prices thanks to OPEC+ cuts in recent months driving oil prices up. And yet we are still far behind on renewable energy aims, with leaders across Europe continually failing to invest enough in infrastructure and technology to speed up alternative energy production. 

Governments around the world will now be forced to bridge the gap between the ongoing use of gas in households, for heating and cooking, and the availability of enough renewable energy to fuel them, likely by subsiding energy costs until wholesale prices stabilize or an alternative can be found.

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This is just another example of the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the energy transition.  The faster governments try to make it happen, the more mistakes will be made. 


I no longer trust the USA when it comes to "working together".  When politically driven nut jobs like Gov. Whitmer can put the supply chain of oil to Ontario and Quebec in peril, I think it is imperative that Canada builds a Canada East pipeline to supply the needs 70% of our population.  

I know that will be expensive, but as an example waste, look at how Trudeau just wasted $600mm on a useless election and has promised another within 18 months. 

If we created a Canada East pipeline, we could insure that Canadians have a reliable supply of energy.  If the pipeline was constructed with an eye to the future (the ability to move hydrogen??), it doesn't really matter if we stop using oil in 20 to 40 years. 

I don't pretend to have the answers, but stubling along in the dark relying upon a self-serving USA can't be the answer.
Comment by Experienced on Sep 23, 2021 11:15am
Great reference Obscure - Thank you One thing in the article that caught my attention is the issue related to Carbon Capture and re-use (CCUs).  As we know, SU has a number of initiatives in this area.  Below, I have provided a refefence to some of the issues surrounding this technology.   One of the takeaways from this article for me is that this could in fact become a big part ...more  
Comment by Oldnagger on Sep 23, 2021 2:27pm
It is hard to believe but after all these years of talking about global warming, that our government does not have the slightest clue as to how to attack the problem. I've seen children put more thought in to how to set up a lemonade business. How or why would Suncor ever get involved in these projects above and beyond their symbolic value ? Canadians need a plan , the plan needs to be debated ...more  
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 23, 2021 7:41pm
A few years back I invested in a small company (CO2 Solutions - https://co2solutions.com) that Suncor had partnered with and funded, and at the time, I remember Suncor saying that CCUS was viable when WCS was at $50 per barrel and above, and when carbon taxes were in place at a certain amount ($50 a tonne, I think but my memory is foggy). We are basically there, now. CO2 Solutions was ahead of its ...more  
Comment by Experienced on Sep 23, 2021 7:49pm
Thanks for the info CO2 Much appreicated.
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 23, 2021 8:03pm
It's a pleasure. I have a hunch that the only reason Suncor didn't buy CO2 Solutions (probably could have been bought for $5-7Mil), was that their tech was more efficient when taking co2 from flue gas from coal plants and from burning biomass. It didn't work as well with Natural gas or burning oil etc. It also was only able to extract airborne CO2. But there are all kinds of options ...more  
Comment by Oldnagger on Sep 23, 2021 8:38pm
I fail to understand how CO2 can be a feedstock for other products. It is not reactive and can only be made reactive by returning it to where it came from. I.e. carbon or hydrocarbon compounds and oxygen. CO2 is a gas and so it is good for soda pop , plant growing and pig killing. It can also be used to pressurize some depleted oil reserves , but our government is not too keen on thst. As far as ...more  
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 23, 2021 9:01pm
I'll be the first to say I'm no expert but make no mistake, a lot of people are working on it. Planting a tree doesn't work as well as the greenies would want you to believe because they release CO2 at night, and they release CO2 when they die and decompose. One compelling possible future for humanity is a circular carbon-based economy. It would help solve the greenhouse gases issue ...more  
Comment by Oldnagger on Sep 23, 2021 9:25pm
Actually just after posting I went to,watch CNBC . They were interviewing the CEO of a company called New Forests. He is gaining a lot of attention from companies looking for carbon offsets. He mentioned something interesting, not only do they want to plant trees , but they also want to develop means for wood to replace cement , steel and other energy intensive materials As I said in an earlier ...more  
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 23, 2021 9:39pm
Hey, all I'm trying to say is that Suncor is smart to be in the carbon capture business. You can invest in tree planting businesses if you want but the fact is, earth doesn't have enough land for all the trees we would need to sequester enough CO2. They've already done the studies on that. Especially when you factor in population growth, farming etc. The $50 cost per tonne for CCUS you ...more  
Comment by Oldnagger on Sep 23, 2021 10:42pm
22% of the CO2 problem is caused by deforestation. Planting trees would be one step of perhaps many solutions. There are many others, the one I am invested in is natural gas production. Since 2005 when fracking horizontal wells first began in ernest, The US has expanded nat gas production by 50% that is enough to displace 13 billion tons of coal each year . With nat gas having only half the carbon ...more  
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 23, 2021 10:57pm
Absolutely, trees can be part of the solution, just not the whole solution. I won't pretend that I can change your opinion on carbon capture but consider companies like Carbon Cure who are making better, stronger concrete with CO2 (their tech uses cryogenic carbon capture). They have 321 companies producing they're mix in North America and they're just getting started. Also consider ...more  
Comment by Obscure1 on Sep 23, 2021 11:53pm
Cc2 and Oldnag: Productive discussion guys.  Thanks for your thoughtful input.
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 24, 2021 6:57am
The current CO2 market is currently tiny and buyers typically buy by the tank at wild-ranging local prices but if the market widens to products like fertilizer, plastics, graphene, fuels etc. and they build a pipeline network for it, then the carbon emitters of the world will suddenly become carbon suppliers. That's very far off, granted. Who can predict... 15 or even 25 years? In the meantime ...more  
Comment by Oldnagger on Sep 24, 2021 8:22am
Perhaps I didn't make my point to well. I am a chemical engineer , not an expert by any means, but I do sem to have remembered basic hydrocarbon chemistry and reaction kinetics. CO2 is not reactive without putting as much energy back into as was liberated when it was formed. So even though it could be reformed into other derivatives it would be insane to do so , as it would be much more ...more  
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 24, 2021 12:49pm
With your background, you are absolutely smarter than I am on the chemistry. I do know is that CO2 doesn't seem to be completely inert. It reacts with water to create carbonic acid, and all I can tell you is that a lot of people are in the field of CO2 usage. All I can say is that the cost of capture is now low enough that the cost not really the issue. It's about how we grow the market ...more  
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 24, 2021 12:56pm
I should add that the investing mistake that I made a few years back was too get overly optimistic about CO2 Solutions, who had a product that was way ahead of its time. They did not have the funding to bring it to market and so when Saipem bought them, my shares went to $0 and I lost a lot. The hard lesson learned for me is to never underestimate how long it can take to bring a product to market, ...more  
Comment by jx7000 on Sep 24, 2021 12:01am
All this just to control 0.04% of CO2 in the atmosphere.
Comment by Co2Harvest on Sep 24, 2021 7:18am
It's very black and white, for me. Take the global warming argument out of the equation, and instead consider the possible opportunity. Carbon capture started out as "find a hole to put it", but carbon capture and utilization is something entirely different.
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