Post by
peep2 on Sep 03, 2017 4:33pm
Final ramblings & overdone to really make clear whats what
Final Rambling - It will take 12 to 18 months to go through the vetting
approval process again, if that is what is being decided on now by the higher
court the next 3 months, and whether THO's mine are also agreed to be operational
again or not. Depending on whether the higher court thinks there are indigenous
people in the area or surrounding the area of THO’s silver mine to get vetting
voting approval from, on THO’s mine existing at all. Therefore all three things are
being decided upon the next 3 months.
I don’t think indigenous people
should have that right. Only to be well compensated like surrounding community
people are with jobs, economic activities, facilities/services, and maintaining the
environment as best as ca. And what the UN’s C169 indigenous rights resolution
for the world, should be seen as – as leverage for compensation to the surrounding
community people including indigenous people. Not to paralyze or stop a nation’s
economic activities and companies.
The case concerning CALAS, a Guatemala legal, social and environment group’s,
made before the lower court in May, requiring nearby indigenous people to vet
approve THO’s silver mine. CALAS's case about that was approved by the lower
court. The indigenous people at least being the vetters to decide whether THO’s
silver mine should be there and operable because of a UN C169 indigenous rights
resolution for the world.
Theoretically I could stop here, but am going to ramble on, to over doing it, to try
and make things, or the parameters involved, as crystal clear as possible, and over
kill of that.
Maybe Guatemala has a
law requiring the surrounding community, vetting rights too, but I don’t think so
and wasn’t part of CALAS’s case before the Guatemala lower court that it does.
Though it sounds like MEM, the mining ministry of Guatemala, and THO did get
Involvement and opinions from the surrounding community about the silver mine.
As well as providing jobs, social facilities/services and maintenance of environment
as best as possible. If more can be done I’m sure MEM and THO would have no
objections in order to get the silver mine operational again.
Vetters decide whether who, ie THO, gets to do such and such, ie build and
operate a silver mine. Or vetting again, since supposedly the first indigenous
vetting wasn’t allowed to be informed enough or done properly enough, or even
said not to be there to vet vote their decision. MEM and THO not thinking there
was an indigenous group to get that vetting approval from. I don’t know!
Apparently both MEM and THO claimed there are no indigenous people in or
around THO’s silver mine to get vetting permission from. The lower court appears
not to agree with that now.
Or perhaps given all the problems that THO has had with CALAS protests and
road blockers, THO’s private security force incidences with them, embarrassing
court cases in north America around that, losing world investment institutions over
that, and the UN’s C169 indigenous rights resolution for the world, the lower court
decided to have everything decided very rigorously again, to appease everyone, so
there are no doubts anymore.
It’s strange it has gone this far, since once the gov’t decides the vetting was
done right and the community and environment are being compensated enough,
protesters should be legally prevented from blockading mining roads, and put in
jail for a while if don’t desist from doing it. Otherwise everything reasonably
and lawfully done can be protested forever. Gaining once again, through constant
media cover, claimed moral high grounds and incidences, more and more national
and world support to embarrass Guatemala to close down THO’s mine. But what
should have happened the first time, was rigorously defending a non abolishable,
and legally binding deal with THO. Allowing for removal and jail detaining of
protesters, the jail sentences growing longer the more times they protest and block
mining roads.
And I don’t mind the UN’s C169 resolution representing indigenous groups, but
not to provide leverage to not approve mining operations, but leverage on nations
and mining companies to compensate the surrounding community, including
indigenous people, with jobs, community services and environmental maintanence
as good as possible.
The Guatemala legal, social and environment group, CALAS, should realize
that is the point of the UN’s C169 indigenous resolution, and not to be economic
and environmental paralyzers against mining in general. Since after all, everything
we build from or live off of or eat from, comes from the ground, for the most part.
Animals and people per se don't come from the ground, but eat what comes from
the ground, greatly effecting them. There are countless inherent dangers and
vulnerabilities in that, that can’t be avoided completely, like soil depletion, blight,
marauders, contamination, toxins, poor ore grades, soil and water run off, pollution
resistent bugs and weeds, but the way that reality or god and civilization’s
development, does things.
I’m also suspicious of the UN resolution. That it wants to do away with gold and
Silver mines as far as being real physical money providers, and to emphasize
cryptocurrencies like bitcoin instead. Which is just another form of a cashless
society, trapping one’s money into a dying financial system, and not allowed to
vote with one’s feet as it were, to have runs on banks, to go into cash, gold and
silver instead, in badly run economic and financial times.
However, obviously gold and silver are used for jewellery and in silver’s case
especially, for technology. So perhaps I’m going overboard on the UN’s
Indigenous resolution being used to get rid of gold and silver, for a cashless
financial world only. The east and the BRICS nations are certainly against a
cashless society, the way they are accumulating gold and silver now, as opposed
to the west that can’t give it away fast enough. For example Canada recently
sold all it’s gold reserves from its central bank.
The constitutional court deciding within 3 months or so whether THO can
resume operations while the bigger indigenous vetting problem is decided about
whether it has to be done again or done for the first time if never done yet.
However as regard to just resuming operations, a pre-emptive 'no' by the
higher court was made before the formal August 28 appeal by THO to the higher
constitutional court, so it doesn’t seem likely.
Why the lower court would shut
down the active THO mining company during the process doesn’t make sense,
and even less sense the higher court is or at least so far in its preliminary no.
Though it can decide otherwise after THO’s formal appeal made recently on august
28.
Once again in may be because Guatemala wants to win back world investors,
world opinion and UN support, and to do that has to treat the case before it by
CALAS very seriously and go about methodically and step by step, that everything
was done right, or will be done right this time, if wasn’t the first time.
Therefore probably the preliminary ‘no’ by the higher court to not resume THO’s
Mining operation was done to properly show, CALAS who opened the indigenous
case, the world investment community, world opinion in general and UN, the
seriousness it takes the indigenous vetting problem, claimed not to have been
done properly, or not at all. Showing it was done properly or didn’t have to be
done if there are no indigenous people in or around THO’s mine. Or to do it
properly if there was an oversight of not recognizing some people around THO’s
mine as being indigenous. Then showing and Doing everything by the book what
ever action is proven most appropriate, so that CALAS the world, world opinion,
world investment community and the UN, can’t complain anymore.
Also it might help other court cases by CALAS and others, being done around
the world, particularly in Canada and US, to outcome successfully, if the higher
constitutional court of Guatemala, and any further actions by MEM and THO, are
proceeded successfully first. Hence they are taking the CALAS case very seriously,
by the book and step by step.
Though I guess the higher constitutional court’s 3 month legal decision, is also about
whether the lower court's decision is right or wrong on agreeing with the Guatemala
CALAS legal/social/environmental group, representing the indigenous people.
Whether indigenous people are there at all, weren't informed well enough by MEM
(mining ministry of Guatemala) and THO, in the vetting decision making process or
even allowed to vet on THO’s mine at all, whether it could build the silver mine.
If the higher court are voting on that too, and the higher court says the lower
court and CALAS are wrong, that there was no indigenous natives to get vetting
approval from for the mine, then that should be the end of it, and all goes back
to the way it was. But it better really have the proof indigenous people aren’t there,
otherwise a new vetting vote by the indigenous people, or a first time vote, has to
be done after all sides, MEM, THO and CALAS are allowed to make their pro or con
casesallowing the silver mine to remain in existence at all.
However if within 3 months the higher court proves there is no significant indigenous
natives around THO or if it takes 12 months or so and a significant indigenous group is
convinced to vote for the continuation of the THO silver mine, then THO’s property
rights and use of public roads has to be enforced, all protests declared illegal and
increasing jail time to road blockers, enforced. Or should be that way, otherwise the
blocking of mining roads and protests bordering on harassment, triggering incidences
to get national and world opinion on their side, (which they would have no longer the
legal right or standing for anymore), can go on forever.
So maybe the constitutional court will allow THO to resume operation in their
response in 3 months or even declare native indigenous people were informed
and voted properly or there are no significant indigenous people close to THO’s
silver mine.
The community around the silver mine has no say at least as far as the UN's
C169 indigenous resolution is concerned since the UN's C169 resolution is only
regarding indigenous people, not community people surrounding proposed mining
operations. And CALAS didn’t bring up that they do have that right in the case
they brought in May before the lower court.
Which strongly suggests local communities don’t have a national law backing
them, that they can vet vote down mining companies. They do have the right
for jobs, social facilities/services and environment maintenance, as best as can,
compensations. Those compensations, the UN’s C169 indigenous rights resolution
is probably helping greatly in getting them, and should be seen as their real
importance and not preventing economic mining facilities and activities to go forth.
If MEM and THO can do more for the community, jobs and environment, then that
should be pursued, not closing down mines and economic pursuits.
CALAS in May 2017 before Guatemala’s lower court, representing claimed
indigenous people around THO’s silver mine, only cited MEM, the mining
ministry of Guatemala, as the guilty party. In being remiss and at fault in not
admitting indigenous people were there or in so called failing to get indigenous
peoples well informed and voting to approve a silver mine by THO. According to
UN’s C169 indigenous resolution, for the world, requiring that.
Why THO wasn't allowed a hearing at CALAS's appeal is beyond me, since
THO's silver mine staying in operation was at stake. That justified a presence
by THO at those lower court hearings. Also THO would have been privy to the
specific arguments by CALAS that indigenous native people are there, and
weren’t given ample information and vetting voting decision making, in having a
silver mine built and operational or not.