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Destroying Cancer at the Speed of Light®

Clinical Study Underway (75 of 100 Patients Treated)
Expected to complete enrollment at the end of 2024
Expected to complete study at the end of 2026


Bullboard - Investor Discussion Forum Theralase Technologies Inc. V.TLT

Alternate Symbol(s):  TLTFF

Theralase Technologies Inc. is a Canada-based clinical-stage pharmaceutical company. The Company is engaged in the research and development of light activated compounds and their associated drug formulations. The Company operates through two divisions: Anti-Cancer Therapy (ACT) and Cool Laser Therapy (CLT). The Anti-Cancer Therapy division develops patented, and patent pending drugs, called... see more

TSXV:TLT - Post Discussion

Theralase Technologies Inc. > the protocol change notice from Health Canada
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Post by DJDawg on Oct 28, 2023 4:22pm

the protocol change notice from Health Canada

There hasn't been much talk regarding the protocol approval changes. They got Health Canada approval to get more data on the CR at 450 day patients. I'm guessing that if the protocol covers 450 days then you need approval before you chase down more confidential patient data.

As well, recall that they announced:
"Optional Maintenance Study II Treatment -Patients currently receive a mandatory maintenance Study II Treatment at 180 days; however, this has been optimized to allow optional maintenance Study II Treatments, at the discretion of the Principal Investigator ("PI") based on the patient's response. For patients who have achieved a CR or IR at any point in time and have demonstrated a duration of that CR or IR, no further maintenance Study II Treatments would be administered; however, if the patient recurs at any scheduled assessment visit (i.e.: 90, 180, 270, 360 or 450 days), then that patient would be eligible to receive up to 2 maintenance Study II Treatments at the discretion of the PI to assist the patient in achieving a CR."
 
This is an interesting modification. I feel like there is some nuances in why they have requested this modificaton.
 
Recall that as it stands, people get treated at time 0 and 180 days. But there is a good chance that those who are non-responders at day 90 drop out to move on to the next trial or to have bladder resection. They are allowed to do that and then they are considered NR for the entire duration of the trial. So the study has always suffered, in my opinion, from losing patients after only one treatment.
 
If you look at the 90 day time-point, the non-responders are about 36%. That is 36% that you likely cannot get a second crack at because they have exited by the 180 day time-point.
 
Recall that the protocol is as follows
 
- day 0 get treated
- month 1, urine for cytology
- month 2, urine for cytology
- month 3 urine for cytology THEN you go to cystoscopy (why go to scope without that information. It has to be that way)
 
The timing of results means that the urologist knows the urine cytology before you go to the procedure room. Likely  days or a week or two before.
 
If urine positive for cancer cells then you are either an IR or an NR. As such, they can say to the patient, "if you want, given that you are going to procedure room, we can do one more treatment". Most would say "why not". That means that your 3 month IR and NR's are going to get a 2nd treatment at 90 days quite often. Versus now when you may just opt out of study and not bother with waiting till 6m scope and maintenance treatment. So they are now keeping a lot of the 90 day dropouts in the study. And converting some of them to CR or IR by doing two treatments back to back.
 
So in many ways, the change in protocol is really a way to try two treatments at the early part of the study. One at day 0 and one at day 90. Then you get maintenance at day 180 so some will get 3 treatments. All the better. Some cancer treatments are more likely to work if you have a chance to repeat a few times to chase down the last cancer cells.
 
This is the big reason for the change in my opinion.
 
There are not really that many that flip CR to NR later in study. The big drop off is from day 0 to 90 (the ones that didn't go CR at all). The new study protocol variation does allow you to offer a second maint treatment to the 270 day and 360 day people if they want. Again, you will usually know the cytology in the urine BEFORE you go to the procedure room. 
 
The ones that are NR early on are getting one more "why-not" treatment at 90 days.

I realize I'm stating the obvious but it was not obvious to me until I thought about it sequentially.


 
Comment by Legit62 on Oct 28, 2023 5:10pm
My thought on this is that this shouldnt affect our BTD or AA timing, since we already have the patients needed for that and they were just going to resubmit another pre BTD approval, Correct??? Im still optimistic for late 4TH q 23 or 1ST q 24 with possible JV news soon after that
Comment by Rumpl3StiltSkin on Oct 28, 2023 5:50pm
I'm thinking so Legit, I'm betting the PR on the 16th was a trial balloon for whatever data changes the FDA wanted? The way the data was presented was different. Now they just contact the sites and re tally the data in the proper format, and re-submit  if it is a no brained maybe the FDA beats the 60 day clock and we all get a nice Xmas gift. I guess it depends on who's desk it ...more  
Comment by DJDawg on Oct 28, 2023 5:55pm
I agree that it doesn't related to BTD or AA but it is just a smart move overall to have an option to treat some at 90days. The part about being approved to follow up past 450 day may in fact be for the BTD application as they may want to know the 18m numbers.
Comment by BlueFranky on Oct 28, 2023 6:05pm
"The part about being approved to follow up past 450 day may in fact be for the BTD application as they may want to know the 18m numbers." .... And if/when (if at all), we have fall-offs past 450.. and how this compares to Kettruda and Astridilin .. further affirmation of standard of care?
Comment by N0taP00p on Oct 28, 2023 8:24pm
DJDawg: First, thank you for the logical explanation of the interim treatment approval from HCA. By definition , that is for the remainder of the phase2 study all the way through full approval; Should definitely help move CR rates even higher.   Here are my thoughts: There are 3 parts to this unexpected optimization of study 2 and there are statements in the NR from Mandel and RDW that ...more  
Comment by DJDawg on Oct 29, 2023 9:21am
Great discussing Everything I've heard is that pre-BTD and BTD are on track for the next 3 months. I chatted with someone who chatted with RDW and they said that all the feeback they hav gotten is around adding data and clarification to make the BTD application solid. But could be a broken telephone there.  Not sure about the FDA approval of the modification. Not sure how that works. I ...more  
Comment by Benedictus on Oct 29, 2023 1:55am
Makes sense but why did they wait so long to amend the optimization. This pattern emerged quite early in the ph2 trial so the trend was apparent well before the need to treat 62 patients. Is it possibly due to discussion with the FDA and HC about how real world treatment should look in a commercialized path? Or was the onus on the company to demonstrate such a consistent safety profile before ...more  
Comment by DJDawg on Oct 29, 2023 9:16am
Good question. I don't know why they didn't change it earlier. Add to the list of TLT management shortcomings.... I think one thing that backfired was they were so happy and surprised (I suspect) by the one and done results in the phase 1b patients that they went with a "few only" treatment approach. Every other drug ever used for this is monthly to every 3 month instillation ...more  
Comment by wildbird1 on Oct 29, 2023 8:13am
Legit62...You are correct this new protocol will not affect the pre-BTD & BTD application. For now this new protocol has only been approved for Canadian patients. In order for this new protocol to apply to US patients TLT would have to first receive a letter of approval from the FDA Institutional Review Board(IRB) (Google it). For now the pre-BTD & BTD application follow its normal ...more  
Comment by skys1 on Oct 28, 2023 8:18pm
Agree Dawg, thats the reason for this. Why not? Most of the trials call for multiple treatments. It should increase the CR rate.
Comment by enriquesuave on Oct 28, 2023 9:53pm
Nice,  that would be the way to do it! IMHO   
Comment by N0taP00p on Oct 29, 2023 10:20am
This was a great discussion indeed.  1. Optimistic Path - No delay to pre-BTD submission, despite additional post 450 day CR data needs.  Work with the FDA to add HCA-approved mods into the remaining portion of phase 2.  No sad violins here. Yet. This is what we all want.  2. Most likely path?   Based on TLT past performance, will push pre-BTD submission out 6 to 9 ...more  
Comment by RoseHeaven on Oct 29, 2023 10:37am
I have few questions about post 450 days CR data collection: - Can TLT collect post 450 days CR data for patients recruited under the previous protocols? - How TLT will collect CR data at 18 months for patients who already passed 18 months? TLT had a Fast Track Designation which should have allowed TLT staff to have frequent communication with FDA. Don't understand why they are making these ...more  
Comment by stocksnbonds458 on Oct 30, 2023 8:44pm
To your point, I wonder how patients 5&6 from phase 1 are doing
Comment by Pandora on Oct 31, 2023 9:43am
Looks like some people are starting to use AI in parsing patient data sets. "NetraMark is a company focused on being a leader in the development of Generative Artificial Intelligence (Gen AI) / Machine Learning (ML) solutions targeted at the Pharmaceutical industry. Its product offering uses a novel topology-based algorithm that has the ability to parse patient data sets into subsets of ...more  
Comment by Benedictus on Oct 29, 2023 11:33pm
I am assuming the company offered up to date transparency on the new corporate presentation as part of the current offering, where BTD is still projected for Q4 23/Q1 24. Considering this revised corp presentation is a key part of their pitch to new investors, the very last thing they would want to do is mislead them right from the start.  In terms of the extension of the 450 day monitoring, ...more  
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