Very good RNC MINERALS CRUX Investor interview,my transcript Very good RNC MINERALS CRUX Investor interview with Mark Selby May 15th 2019, my transcription:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyyxHlQpqFk
Matthew Gordon: Hello and welcome to our viewers on CRUX Investor and also to the listeners on CRUX Cast our new podcast Series.
We're being joined by Mark Selby the CEO of RNC Minerals. Hello Mark, how are you?
Mark Selby: Hey Matthew, how are you?
Matthew Gordon: It's lovely to have you on board. I know you've got a very passionate fan base out there who are dying to hear from you and they've been sending lots of questions. So, I'm very keen to see how you respond to some of those thoughts but why don't we kick off first with a two-minute elevator view of the company for those who aren't familiar with the RNC story.
Mark Selby: I think RNC fundamentally is a tremendous investment opportunity at present time. Most junior companies are lucky to have one great asset and we're fortunate to have two great assets. So, there's the Beta Hunt gold and nickel mine in Western Australia. Obviously, the investors have been following the story work, very aware of the Fathers Day vein discovery last fall where we pulled out 25,000 plus ounces out of the size of the living room that generated 40% gold or 400,000 gram per ton content. So again, we think one of the most exciting gold discoveries that's been made in a very long time. The great thing there is a massive amount of exploration potential. That's why we acquired the asset in the first place. We're now able to start to drill that potential off and we've been coming to the end of a 40,000-meter campaign. But from an investment perspective, fundamentally you've got this massive exploration potential. We've got four shears spread across four kilometers that has been barely tested to date. We have this potential for this high-grade. A repeat of Fathers Day being 150 meters down into each of these shears where it intersects the sediment layer. We've got the potential for more of these high grade discoveries to be made and then, the best part about it all, is that there are very few multi-million-ounce deposits that have been discovered in low risk jurisdictions. Not only are we in basically the backyard of Australia's main gold region. We have all the mine infrastructure already in place that we require which cost you four hundred million dollars to replace today. So, that's Beta Hunt and then, on the Dumont side we're wrapping up the updated feasibility study on what is the largest single cobalt development project in the world. It's one of the largest sulphide discoveries ever. We're sitting up in Quebec in the Abitibi next to a pile of infrastructure and so, I think the market now is beginning to realize how much nickel the world is going to need by 2025-2030. Glencore just put a report out yesterday, saying we need 1.3 million tonnes by 2030 and so, Dumont is one of the few projects that's ready to meet that need. So, we're very excited about what we can do with that asset. So, you've got Beta Hunt, you've got Dumont and fundamentally, our team is going to work to whatever way maximizes the value for shareholders for each of those assets.
Matthew Gordon: Well thanks for that summary. Actually, we did a bit of work before this call. Told us a bit more about the company and it struck us, that you from the get-go, have designed this not like a junior but something bigger. There’s been a bit more rigor to the planning it would seem. I'm saying this as an outsider, there's been a bit of rigor to the planning and of course I can't get away from the obvious statement. If I look back to your share price back in the beginning of September to now it's five times. So, if I was in in beginning of September, I'd have five times the value on my shares. That's a pretty impressive type of return and I think a lot of companies would be very, very happy with that. But can you tell us a little bit about the strategy? I mean how have you mapped this out? Have you planned it from when you started to today and perhaps a little bit about where it's going?
Mark Selby: I mean the board and management team here have come from majors. All of us have generally worked at Inco or Falconbridge at one point in time. I worked at Quadra for several years as well. In terms of approach we are looking to try and build out a multi asset mining company. That was the design from day one when we went public and in 2010 our first key asset was obviously Dumont which we've taken through to fully permitted feasibility study complete ready to go mine. But we realized a few years ago, was that while the EV story is exciting and still, if at that time was still four or five years away. So, in the meantime we looked pretty aggressively at a range of assets. So, we picked up two assets at the bottom of the market in early 2016, the Reed Copper Mine which we owned 30% of and then, and the Beta Hunt and so, we were fortunate to take those two smaller assets. We'd generated 120% return on capital over three years which was a fantastic investment. Beta Hunt to be honest we struggle out of the gate with that, but then obviously with the big discovery last year and validated our investment in that asset which is again created several hundred million dollars of market cap just off that one particular investment.
Matthew Gordon: Yes, I get it and I guess there's a little bit of fortune to that buzz. Also, it strikes me a lot of planning involved to be fortunate enough to make that find. What are you going to be doing over the next of 12-18 months? Going to repeat that success, repeat that kind of value creation? I mean is there a plan what is it?
Mark Selby: Yeah, so we just announced that we exercised the option on that Higginsville property. Again, we had a mine that needed a mill, they had a mill that needed a mine so for us, that was a perfect transaction with some real synergy, that's a word gets misused quite a bit. But in this case, there is some real synergy between that set of assets and that will really allow us to take Beta Hunt to a strong cash flowing position and provide the foundation for it to become the very large gold mine that we think it has the potential to become and then, on the Dumont front we are the operator with that with our partner Waterton and so, the key there that asset right now is fully funded from the cash that exists within the joint venture already. So, there's no call on the company's cash to date and we'll look to partner, JV it in a way that makes sense for RNC shareholders. If we get a bid for the entire asset that makes sense we'll sell the asset. At the end of the day I have most of my net worth in this company, so my focus is on doing what's best for our shareholders.
Matthew Gordon: We did happen to take a look at the buying and I'm saying you have been a big buyer over the past few months and the announcement of some of the other management team so I think that's indicative of your view of whether this thing will work or not. Just on that I mean how do you think you're doing in relation to your peers for instance? I mean I want to come on to Higginsville in a second, but just talk to me about how you think you've done in 2018 and beginning of 2019.
Mark Selby: I mean obviously the price has come off in the first half of 2019. But if you look through 2018 - 2019 as an indicator, up four or five X over that time frame. If you go back to early 2016 when we made that shift to pick up those additional assets, we're up two to three X from that time frame at a time where the value of most junior companies just continued to erode away post that date. So again, I'd like to think in terms of that overall time frame in terms of the value that we've created to date and again, with Beta Hunt we're really just getting going. The resource drilling is where it is. We're going to start the exploration drilling now and again, we want to really show people just how big this this gold mine can be and as I said, we're in the enviable position of having one of the few nickel-cobalt projects that that's ready to go in a market that's desperate for nickel-cobalt.
Matthew Gordon: Well actually we talked to Anthony Milewski last week, the CEO of Cobalt27. I think you've recently originally done a deal with them. He was very positive about the Dumont project and being involved with that, how did that deal come about?
Mark Selby: Yes, so they picked up an existing royalty back in 2015. Again, we've tried to be as creative as possible in terms of some of the financing that we've done given the equity markets have largely been closed for most of the last eight years for development projects and so, they picked up an existing royalty from Orion Mine Finance and they purchased that back a year ago February and I think in terms of the endorsement for Dumont is pretty profound in the sense. That Dumont royalty acquisition was their very first non-physical metal transaction so this is a group that probably spend more time than just about anybody on the planet looking at nickel cobalt assets and the first asset we make an investment in is Dumont and then, secondly that they will continue I think actively promoted as a mine that they see as one of the few projects that gets built this cycle.
Matthew Gordon: Sure, I think it was very, very positive but we're going to be talking to him about it again quite soon. So obviously, all the PR, all the headlines have been about Beta Hunt for the obvious reason Fathers Day vein, extraordinary find. A lot of hard work to get to that point, I guess? Takes a little bit of the limelight away from Dumont. I mean tell us, because you said a minute ago you said you knew two-three years back, that EV was coming but it was going to take a while to get there hence you started looking at other assets. But tell us about the nickel market. What you saw then and what you see now and why Dumont should be something that people pay attention to.
Mark Selby: I mean again, going back to day one with this company, the reason the group of us came together in 2010 was we had went through a great big nickel boom in 2007 where nickel prices got to $25 a pound $50,000 plus a ton and what happened at that time was nickel had this overhang of a bunch of large-scale laterite projects, that it's literally sat around for decades and with that spike in prices basically all of those projects that have been sitting around for decades finally got financed and put into production now. A lot of those HPAL plants took a long time to ramp up. Our view was with Dumont in 2010, was we knew we had to get through five or six years of nickel pig iron pain as the market absorbed all that supply that was going to come from Indonesia and the Philippines but once we got through that additional supply fundamentally nickel demands still very robust from just stainless-steel demand at five percent a year and then on the other side the equation, you now have this brand-new use with EV's Robert Friedland I think said it best, nickel is the new gasoline. I think we're moving from the oil-based transportation system to a nickel cobalt based transportation system. So, that is going to require vast amounts of nickel. So, having a nickel project ready in a development pipeline that’s basically, largely empty we think was going to create a lot of value over the long term. It was not in 2010, this was not about a quick home run it was really building a foundation, building a world-class asset which takes you more than a few months to do and so, we think we've got that with Dumont. We always had that with Dumont and now we think Beta Hunt has that potential on the gold side as well.
Matthew Gordon: So, you've got the world's second largest nickel reserve and I think fifth largest nickel sulphide reserve and the ninth largest cobalt reserve. On any level that's pretty impressive. You've got I guess, options there but can you give us a sense of what the nickel markets doing, that you mentioned I think in Indonesia certainly is one of them with nickel pig iron and etc. Tell us a little bit about the market again for those uninitiated in this space.
Mark Selby: There's lots of investors and for good reason haven't paid much attention to nickel because fundamentally it was a pretty structurally beat up metal so through the first half of this decade you had the supply come from Indonesia and China where they took this laterite ore dumped in furnaces and provided a significant amount of new supply. Get a massive amount of inventories pile up. I'm not really weighed on the nickel price for quite a period of time but today we worked through that first wave. Stainless nickel demand continues to be robust. The thing about 5% growth, nickel is about twice what it is in copper and zinc. That means you need to double supply every 14 years so we need by the middle of the 2020s. We need to find all of the nickel supply that existed in 2010 and not only build it, ramp it up and get it into production by 2025 and we're a fraction of the way there. There's lots of nickel plants being built in Indonesia. We need every single one of them.
The biggest risk to the market is that I think we're going to struggle to find enough supply to meet demand and if you look back and nickel, again I think for people who are new to nickel, if you look back and nickel over time, it goes through these massive squeezes every few decades. So, in the late 1960s nickel prices got to $8 a pound, in 1968 which would be about $50 a pound today. We had another big nickel spike in the late 1980s. We had another nickel spike in the mid 2000s where we got to $20 a pound and if you look at the kind of projections that the Glencore’s of the world are putting out in terms of demand growth over coming decade. It feels like we are setting up for another one of those squeezes in the first half of the 2020s.
Matthew Gordon: So how to use a company, because I find if I look at other commodities such as gold, the value for investors is usually some late exploration development stage, that's when people can get taken out. Once you move into production, there's less returns for the shareholders in terms of share appreciation, etc. How do you value this space? Obviously, you've got gold, you've got nickel, there's this curve building of value creation, you've got existing shareholders; you've got potential new shareholders and you are constantly evaluating where the company is today. Where the maximum point of return is, I mean how do you go about?
Mark Selby: I think again, you pointed out that we've had this massive run since the fall maybe up four or five X plus, since that time frame and people think they’ve missed the boat. But today at a 220 M$ market cap again that Beta Hunt, the infrastructure that we acquired that would cost you four hundred million dollars to replace today. So, if we find any resource the investor is getting it for zero and again given the scale of the shears and the highlighted potential already from the historic drilling that's there, this could be a very large multi-million-ounce deposit potentially at some point in time and so, if you look at what those kind of resources and hopefully reserves in the not-too-distant future trade at, exit at multiple wise again, that can be a very, very valuable asset on its own and then, on the Dumont side again we haven't been in a development cycle for a long time. So, I think people have forgotten about what metrics around to what development assets basically, exit for and again there's been a few recent examples. So, Arizona Mining with their zinc project in the Southwest United States. If you look take over at […] basically both went out for close to one-time NAV. But if you look historically high-quality base metal assets of the scale that Dumont and these assets are exit at .8 to one-time NAV and if you look at what our old feasibility study said, we have a 1 plus billion-dollar NAV. The new feasibility study is probably going to come in, the capex is going to be lower and then NAV is going to be lower but it's going to be in the same order of magnitude and so, again we think there's tremendous value upside on both those assets from where we're sitting today.
Matthew Gordon: OK, well that'd be interesting to get your guidance on that as you moved through that process, but with both assets. As you say, they're both world-class assets. I imagine you're on quite a few people's radar. It's a question of I guess when you want to have conversations and what those conversations mean in terms of value. Can I come back to Beta Hunt just momentarily, if I may and then, if we can talk about Higginsville? Well so at Beta Hunt you've obviously got the Fathers Day vein. You’ve extracted several very large high-grade rocks which you have been on tour with. I've seen them live myself here in London, very, very impressive. But I guess they extracted the maximum PR value from those now. Are those things which are now going to be monetized?
Mark Selby: No, we did take them around the world because again to be able to generate that amount of PR and exposure is again, companies don't get that kind of kind of opportunity every day and so, when you’re the feature core shack exhibit at the BMO Mining conference, which is the first time that we've been invited. You've got people who've run, I won't name specific names of guys who ran some of the largest mining companies in the world crouching behind one of your giant rocks, taking a selfie with it. To be able to have fifteen minutes of discussion time with them, those are invaluable and again, that's been repeated time and time again, with a number of the larger mid-tier gold producers, a number of the largest mining companies in the world. So, it is tremendous exposure for the assets.
Matthew Gordon: But it's very interesting to say, I think people come up childish when they see those rocks. They behave in a very different way. Let's talk about Beta Hunt. So, Goldfields and St. Ives, are you in any discussions with them?
Mark Selby: The asset had some option potential for some of the adjacent ground underground again, at the right time we'll reengage with Goldfields to see if there's any interest there. Fundamentally, we have this this ramp that goes down into the heart of that system and so, there are areas adjacent to the property that would make sense to access from that ramp so at the right time we will resurrect those conversations with Goldfields that hopefully come to a deal that make sense for both groups.
Matthew Gordon: Right and obviously with Higginsville, with the St. Ives operation as well, is that on the table, is that part of the thinking?
Mark Selby: In terms of Higginsville having a mine mill combined isn't much more attractive acquisition target and the reality is unlike the North American market unfortunately where the mid-tier gold guys have struggled for quite a while. The Aussie market you've got a bunch of mid tiers that are fully cashed up, have paper that's very well valued. So, again I think once we get through these next three rounds of drilling here and really start to prove up the scale of resource that we think we have, we're going to get more than a few knocks on the door from these mid tiers. We bought a bunch of old gold mines that are facing production profile issues whereas we bought an old nickel mine that happened to have a brand-new gold deposit.
Matthew Gordon: So, let's get on to Higginsville because I think everyone wants to understand you're thinking process. Why you structured it the way that you have? So, why don't you give us the run-through and I'll perhaps pick up on some of the questions.
Mark Selby: We're picking up Higginsville for 50 million dollars AUD, half in cash, half in shares that Westgold will have to hold on to for a period of time. When we announced that we had the option, we did what we believe will be the equity component that we need to satisfy that $25 million AUD dollar payment and we've gotten very attractive terms on a bunch of very non diluted type financings that we expect to have in place by the time we're ready to close the deal in early June. Again, fundamentally when we bought Beta Hunt the plan was start drilling it, get a long-term milling solution in place and at the right time. As well, we'll be talking to Westgold, also the royalty company about working in the royalty so that we get to a number that makes sense hopefully for both of us and so, when the Higginsville opportunity came around there's only so many mills that are already in place that close by and so, again to build that mill size, mill new today would probably cost you close to a hundred million dollars. So, a 50 million dollar AUD price tag, it was much better than buying it new and then, in addition to the mill we get a significant land package on one of the most prolific gold camps and so, any of the resource value and the operations which will be coming online later this year from Baloo and so forth, that's nice easy to process good grade for an open-pit oxide ore and so, that blended with the material from Beta Hunt makes a lot of sense. We save $15 USD a ton versus what we're paying at Beta Hunt right now. So, it doesn't take too many years of just the milling synergies alone to pay for the acquisition.
Matthew Gordon: Tell me about the numbers, it's 50 million bucks AUD. You've obviously done the math, worked out that that's good value you saving $15 USD which is great. Can you tell us a bit more around the thinking of the way that you structured it, in terms of the cash and the shares obviously with the problem share price, less it is now, it's a little bit lower than it was just after Christmas. Do you look at it that the case of money's the cheapest when you can get it? I mean do the deal now. Could you have waited?
Mark Selby: No, but I think if we had waited to do the equity component when we announced it because again, we wanted to take away any sort of equity overhang that's there. I think when we announced that hopefully we're in a place where it is completely non diluted financing that I think that will really help the story going forward. In terms of doing the deal when we did it obviously, you'd always know there's the best time to do it and then there's the time when the assets available. So, the asset was available. It was the right time to do it and we chose a structure that we think made the most sense for both investors and we're glad to have Westgold as a large RNC shareholder here going forward and Peter Cook quite likes the Beta Hunt Mine.
Matthew Gordon: So how quickly does something like that pay for itself, like 50 million AUD is a lot of money right, so?
Mark Selby: Yeah, if you just look at the milling synergies alone, if you just assume Beta Hunt is going to produce 2,000 tons a day, just the milling cost savings versus tolling you're looking at 10 million $ a year. So, if we do nothing else other than get milling cost synergies that's paid for itself in just over five years and again, at a higher mill rate. That cycle comes in much, much shorter. But, then on top of it we have all of that resource that's there. We will have ounces coming from that land package and then, being positioned in that part of the camp opens up a bunch of other future opportunities going forward.
Matthew Gordon: OK, interesting. So, tell me with the cost of the land package at Higginsville obviously, to define what you've got, I've actually got some information from them, you'll want to explore yourself amongst them and understand what you've got there? Is that something you'll do yourselves or do you feel that you may find a partner to help you develop that? I mean how are you looking at that?
Mark Selby: The primary focus for exploration is going to remain Beta Hunt. That's sort of job one end job two and we obviously need to resource. It's basically just develop and expand the existing reserve resource that's there. So, some small step out there to continue to sustain production from those areas. But again, across that larger land package, if we don't have the time and dollars relative to Beta Hunt to do that exploration I know we'd look to JV that out to the right kind of partner to help unlock that value that's there.
Matthew Gordon: That's interesting and if we continue along this strategy or building some infrastructure and again, I guess with the ultimate aim of reducing your ASIC but that's going to be the big bottom.
Mark Selby: Oh yeah, big time bottom and again the lower your processing cost the more resource potential it opens up for you for sure, for sure.
Matthew Gordon: So, what are the other separate infrastructure type acquisitions or builds or other types of acquisitions that you've been considering, not necessarily specifics but what have you been looking at?
Mark Selby: Yeah, I know again I think with Beta Hunt it makes sense given the geology and the location to look for things that are nearby, that asset and there areother things that we've looked at in the past that are nearby. I think right now we’ll focus on consolidating those two assets and extracting all the value we want to get from there. But again, if an opportunity to infill a nearby opportunity that can provide feed at low cost into that mill, those the kind of things that we'll continue to look for. In that part of the world and then, on Dumont the focus is really going to be on finding a funding partner to take it into construction as quickly as possible.
Matthew Gordon: Sorry I will get onto Dumont, just want to very quickly finish off on Beta Hunt because there's a lot been going on and you've done everything in such an accelerated timeframe, it's been quite impressive. Only ASIC, what are the other things that you're looking at reducing the ASIC, because the ASIC around $1100 at the moment, you need to get that down, what's happening?
Mark Selby: Yeah, I know I mean the key things going forward, one's obviously the milling cost, two is going to be scaling up the mining operation there again, there's a bunch of fixed costs at a mine if you can increase the reach your mining at, that's going to help bring down those costs going forward. A lot of the drilling results that have been exciting in the Western Flanks area. This structure looks like it's getting quite large and that creates, gives you more flexibility in terms of being able to use lower cost mining methods to pull that ore out and then, as I mentioned earlier, we'll be looking to have discussions with the royalty company at the right time, in terms is there a change to that royalty structure that makes sense for both of us.
Matthew Gordon: You mentioned technology there, I mean is that an outsourced thing or do you have your own in-house team managing a technical component?
Mark Selby: In terms of the mine itself we have our inside technical services group.
Matthew Gordon: Right okay great, so let's get back to Dumont. It's a huge, huge operation. You talked about JV, finding the right partner to JV with. You've begun conversations?
Mark Selby: We've had discussions again, given our relationships in the nickel industry, we have no other leading players in Japan and Korea and elsewhere and so, nickel prices spiked in 2014-15 briefly. But at that time, we advanced discussions with a number of groups to provide different components to the financing package. Today, it's just a matter of we've kept a number of those discussions warm so it's just a matter of once this updated feasibility study out those will kickstart discussions going forward.
Matthew Gordon: So, outwards like Q3 of this year?
Mark Selby: It'll be up this quarter at some point.
Matthew Gordon: Right, right, fantastic, OK, so everyone sitting back, waiting, waiting to see what's happening. So how much time do you allocate? I mean I look at the board and they've got a lot of advisers there. It's grown rapidly as well. Some pretty big names on there. I mean how much are you allocating between the different assets? Because you've also got three different exploration assets as well, haven't you?
Mark Selby: Yeah, another key thing there is again, I mean we have people and teams are dedicated to each of those asset groups so again, given the activity and the focus of the company right now, is gold and Beta Hunt. I'm spending large majority of my time now on Beta Hunt right now, but there is a block of time when Dumont and then, again, we've got some great people with David Christie running Orford, he doesn't need too much help from me in terms of dragging that asset board.
Matthew Gordon: What I'd like to do now, I know we don't have much time today, but I'd like to come back to have a conversation with you another time around the technical components of the assets and perhaps that's something we can do with you. With the time we've got left, can we talk about the finances and financings so even recently, a financing 12 $M why did you do that and what are you going to do with it?
Mark Selby: Again, we had this coming, a 25 $M AUD potential payment if we had to exercise the option again, the risk of announcing an option to do something without the financing fully in place at that point, is the market sells off in advance thinking that you're going to come to the market with the big raise. So, we thought it was important to do that raise at that point in time. If the deal did not go forward, we'd be able to use that cash to do more exploration at Beta Hunt. I've said to investors before, I said you know if there's someone like a Cisco on this asset, there'd be 12 drill rigs going. There's just that many targets to go after and so, we put that in place with that and with the financing that were looking at right now and again we're making good progress on a number of non diluted financing opportunities. We'll have the cash that we need to complete the deal and the cash we’ll need to continue to move those assets going forward.
Matthew Gordon: Obviously, the large nuggets that are at the end of their world tour, perhaps a citation about that?
Mark Selby: We're monetizing those.
Matthew Gordon: Can you give us a sense of what they're worth because I'm not quite sure how you go about selling something like that?
Mark Selby: Yeah, basically I mean we're looking at premium somewhere we've been offered somewhere between fifty and a hundred percent type pre news for most of the most of the stones, so we'll be working with some advisors to get those out the door sooner than later.
Matthew Gordon: Right, right but no sense of what range you'd expect?
Mark Selby: Fifty to hundred percent premium on top of the gold value.
Matthew Gordon: Right but do you know what that build value is?
Mark Selby: Yeah, we do, I mean we have almost 4000 ounces and specimens that are there 2000-4000 ounces of value.
Matthew Gordon: Do the maths, yeah okay. I mentioned you're a rather impressive board and you've also got impressive shareholders not least of which is Mr. Eric Sprott what's his involvement, is he involved back to playing the business or is he just a shareholder?
Mark Selby: I think he's just a shareholder. We do talk from time to time and he also publicly expressed his opinions as well. I think the key thing is he likes high-grade gold exposure as soon. As the announcement came out of the fall, he acquired his position at that point in time. When we first discovered gold, a high-grade gold traditionally where it was found at Bate Hunt alongside the nickel deposits, he had become an investor at that point in time as well. So, he basically came back in and enough disposition and we're great to have a really great gold investor like Eric involved in that.
Matthew Gordon: For sure, but he has been vocal in the market. He said that he’d like more guidance from the company. Do you think it’s a fair comment?
Mark Selby: It's again not typical of a junior to have two major assets and to just sum it up, you've got gold in Australia and nickel in Quebec and so, I think investors including him kind of want to know where we are, where we're going with both and I think once the feasibility study at Dumont, we're kind of talking about what's going to happen on that front. I think we'll be very clear to investors there. Again, just want to drive home, most of my net worth is tied up in this company and so, I'm not here to build an empire. I'm here to create value for shareholders and if it means both those assets get sold by September great, if it means we have to continue to advance and develop them for another 12 months then we'll continue over that timeframe.
Matthew Gordon: Okay, that's fair enough. I think your answer would be that it's a fair comment you're looking to issue more guidance and you're looking to create more value because you're aligned with shareholders.
Mark Selby: Yeah, right more than already, you matter for sure and again I think we have a gold investing base today and I again think for those gold shareholders are nervous that we're going to sort of cross subsidize things or sort of muck things up a little bit to be very, very clear, there is a pile of cash in the Dumont joint venture that is funding those activities and so today that Dumont is a self-funding entity, asset at this point in time.
Matthew Gordon: Which is great, I mean that's fantastic for shareholders. But when do you think the entire operation becomes self funding, because obviously, people they're looking at their shares to go from value, so self funding is the moment where things get exciting.
Mark Selby: I mean I think again with Dumont to be able to take it to the next stage beyond a feasibility study is really to do a construction decision and at that point in time we'd like to have a big project partner come in and work with us and Waterton in terms of being able to buy the remaining capital that will take it through to production. That hopefully, the amount of dilution that's required to get that project going will be very low or zero going for it. Again, we can spin that out in a separate entity, we can joint venture in a separate entity with somebody else. There's a full range of options that were open to and looking at.
Matthew Gordon: I think that's a good comment. I mean for me I guess what I would like to understand is investors have got high hopes in this in this company because you've done so much so quickly, it's been really impressive. You believe in there's more appreciation to come for them because of what you're doing with Dumont, with what you think is happening with EV space and a nickel. Anything that people should continue to support the business?
Mark Selby: Again, putting my money where my mouth is. I bought my two largest single purchases of RNC shares ever value wise back in earlier this year and the end of last year, in the 50 cents and 60 cents share prices. I was buying them at those prices because I thought the stock was undervalued and can see value from here. So, today we're trading in the high 30 cents. I obviously believe there's a substantial amount of upside from here going forward.
Matthew Gordon: All right Mark, I’ll cut short there because I know you're short of time today, but we could perhaps catch up again. I think you're in London next week. I'm going to get into some of the detail and will certainly be taking some more questions from the investors out there, potential investors and perhaps we can address those then. But thanks again, for today. Appreciate your time and see you next week.
Mark Selby: Thanks Matthew, take care sir.
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