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Bullboard - Stock Discussion Forum Dream Office Real Estate Investment Trust T.D.UN

Alternate Symbol(s):  DRETF

Dream Office Real Estate Investment Trust (the Trust) is an open-ended real estate investment trust. The Trust owns central business district office properties in various urban centers across Canada, with a focus on downtown Toronto. The Trust owns and manages 3.5 million square feet of office land in downtown Toronto. Its objectives include managing its business and assets to provide both... see more

TSX:D.UN - Post Discussion

Dream Office Real Estate Investment Trust > Cooper not helping us here!
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Post by BlueJay2020 on Sep 28, 2023 4:28pm

Cooper not helping us here!

A major Canadian office landlord says about 30 per cent of downtown Toronto’s buildings are obsolete and likens leasing office space in the city to playing a game of snakes and ladders.

Michael Cooper, chief executive of Dream Office REIT, said the past few years have been challenging for landlords as tenants reduced their office footprint to deal with the shift to remote work.

He estimates that a wide swath of downtown office towers are obsolete because they have high operating costs and require an infusion of capital to make them attractive to tenants, especially in an environment like today where tenants can be very picky.

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“Probably 30 per cent of the space in downtown Toronto requires a ton of money, a lot of investment and it’s questionable if you put the investment in that the building will be worth enough to justify it,” he said. “That’s what I mean by obsolete – when you put a lot of money in but you’re not actually going to increase the value.”

When demand was much higher in 2019, tenants were happy to take space in any building just to have a presence in the country’s financial capital.

Office conversion to housing costly, say developers

But now that nearly 20 per cent of downtown Toronto’s office space is available to lease, prospective tenants have a lot of choice. They are being courted with a buffet of incentives such as a few months’ free rent and extra cash to refurbish their space.

“It’s tough to get a deal done,” said Mr. Cooper, who said filling his buildings is like “a game of snakes and ladders.”

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“When you get the lease done, you’ve done a little bit better, you’ve gone up a step. And then you’re working on another one and you have another step. Then you got another one, and you have another step. And then you find out one of the tenants that’s in your building that you thought was going to stay, they tell you they’re leaving. So now you slide back down,” he said.

Dream Office Real Estate Investment Trust owns and operates 17 office buildings in downtown Toronto as well as office buildings outside of the city’s financial district and in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

“So all the work we did. We’re just in the same place we were before,” Mr. Cooper said.

Dream’s portfolio of office buildings had an occupancy rate of 84 per cent as of the end of June, according to its regulatory filings. That compares with 85 per cent a year ago and 94 per cent in June of 2019.

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In downtown Toronto, the occupancy rate was 88 per cent midyear versus 98 per cent in June, 2019, when tech companies and other businesses were desperate for space in the city.

A key measure of Dream’s office building profitability – net operating income – was $27.8-million for the second quarter, up slightly from $26.7-million a year earlier, but down from $34.6-million for the same period in 2019.

Mr. Cooper still believes in the value of office buildings and called Dream’s properties “wonderful buildings. But it doesn’t mean that the financial returns now are that exciting,” he said. “It’s very difficult.”

A crisis in commercial real estate, a crisis in housing: two problems, one solution

The rise in remote work has hurt office markets throughout Canada and the United States. The share of employees in Toronto’s financial core rebounded to about half of prepandemic occupancy levels by the spring, but has been stuck at those levels since, according to measurements from consulting group Strategic Regional Research Alliance.

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The country’s most populated city is also dealing with a lot more office space. A number of large buildings opened during the health crisis, flooding the core with more space when employees were told to work from home.

Now buildings that are decades old are struggling to compete with the brand new buildings, which have the latest amenities. Even older offices in the top locations are not as cost-effective as the latest crop of skyscrapers.

Commercial real estate brokerages have floated the possibility of turning some of the unwanted space into housing units. But it’s not feasible to turn many older buildings into condos given the lack of proper plumbing and other infrastructure for individual housing units.

“Maybe one out of 20 buildings makes sense as a conversion,” he said, adding that the others should be torn down and new residential buildings should be built.

Investors have soured on office landlords. Dream’s units are trading at $10 per unit. That is about 76 per cent lower than in January, 2020. Dream is not the only office REIT that has lost significant value over the course of the pandemic. Allied, Slate Office and True North Commercial are also down about 70 per cent, with Slate Office near penny-stock status.

Comment by SNAKEYBOY on Sep 28, 2023 4:48pm
To be fair, I blame central banks way more. Throwing CRE and economy into a recession just as the covid pandemic recovery started to take shape.   Companies would be hiring and in demand off ofice space if it werent for recession savings needed
Comment by mnztr on Sep 28, 2023 10:14pm
Cooper helps Cooper. Always has. So he will be harsh with the facts. 84% occupancy, what will it be if we go into recession. Meanwhile Cooper will drive the mofo down and load up when the time is right. best to be buying when he is buying. 
Comment by EstevanOutsider on Sep 28, 2023 10:28pm
perhaps cooper is not the best indicator. he was buying this dog at $29 with his own money and now has gone bearish at a cyclical trough. that article perhaps is bullish for dream as obsolete office may make his buildings more valuable as obsolete ones are demolished or converted. dream office is trading below its land value. use the opportunity to load up ahead of the rally. this is an easy ...more  
Comment by borne2run on Sep 28, 2023 11:37pm
Anyone who sold at $15 during the SIB tendering period looks like a certified genius, avoiding a 30% decline.  I currently don't own any Dream Office shares, but I do own other REITs that have also tanked. very small positions in Artis, First Capital and H&R; decent size position in Allied.
Comment by EstevanOutsider on Sep 29, 2023 12:37am
cooper probably wants to badmouth it so he can take it private at a lower valuation.
Comment by colombuss on Sep 29, 2023 9:33am
This post has been removed in accordance with Community Policy
Comment by InvestSmarter on Sep 29, 2023 9:52am
Maybe our boy Snakey was on his mind. Snakes emotions are also like snakes and ladders.
Comment by NotDrake on Sep 29, 2023 10:19am
I think not happening ony scale for existing companies, but maybe could fill out organically extremely slowly as population increases/new companies form and require office space for "face" or whatever reason etc. Where I work downtown (100% WFH since pandemic), they kept the existing office space, but even as # of employees have increased materially and outgrown the space they haven' ...more  
Comment by colombuss on Sep 29, 2023 10:23am
This post has been removed in accordance with Community Policy
Comment by Meesha1 on Sep 29, 2023 9:33am
I think you guys are missing the point on what Cooper meant. The double headwinds for office are decreased demand and increased supply. What demand there is, is for modern offices with good amenities. Dream has these, and has the financial resources to upgrade those that need it. Other owners do not. So he is implying that in terms of competition, there is actually 30% less supply. Some office ...more  
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