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Bullboard - Stock Discussion Forum Suncor Energy Inc. T.SU

Alternate Symbol(s):  SU

Suncor Energy Inc. is a Canada-based integrated energy company. The Company's segments include Oil Sands, Exploration and Production (E&P), and Refining and Marketing. Its operations include oil sands development, production and upgrading, offshore oil and gas production, petroleum refining in Canada and the United States and its Petro-Canada retail and wholesale distribution networks... see more

TSX:SU - Post Discussion

Suncor Energy Inc. > The US Budget Deal - Some Thoughts
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Post by Experienced on May 28, 2023 6:56am

The US Budget Deal - Some Thoughts

The "Deal" in terms of news reporting is very vague right now as just the broad parameters have been laid out.

The initial market reaction is likely to be positive due to relief that a possible default on the debt has been avoided.  The market reaction could be muted since the market seems to have assumed that some sort of deal would be inked at the last minute.  This raises the question as to how much the positive reaction will be.  We will find out on Tuesday when the US market open again.  The big winners are likely those that had the nerve to buy those 30 day Treasury Bills at a deep discount to face value.  The bond guys win again (lol).

The next key thing to happen will be a "scoring" of the deal by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).  This "scoring" will look out 10 years based on the details in the deal and project Government expenditure and revenue and the resulting fiscal deficits each year.  I have saved the current forecast and will look with great interest at the delta when they release the new projection.  It will be at this time that we will likely see another reaction to the deal.  I encourage others here to do the same and draw your own conclusions.

With that as background, here are my initial thoughts....

1....both sides got a piece they needed in terms of their political backers.  The Republicans got military spending protected and avoided increased taxes on corporations and the wealthy.  The Democrats essentially protected the "Green New Deal" and signature items such as student loan foregiveness and entitlement programs such as medicare and Social security were untouched.  Don't forget that Defence  + entitilements+interest on the debt = total government revenue.  So everything else is done with borrowed money.

2...the deal is essentially a win for Biden and for all intents and purposes doesn't significantly change the trajectory of his trillion dollar spending programs.  The cuts agreed to are small and at the margins and have virtually no real impact on future fiscal deficits.

3...I suspect that the Republican "win" on eliminating increased taxation on corporations will be a positive for the market but the offset to this is that it will actually increase the annual budgetary deficit which will not be a good thing for markets over the longer run.

4...the longer run decision for the market will be whether the stability that there won't be a debt crisis for about 2 years plus no increase in corporation taxes is more important than the fact that the US deficit will continue to grow in excess of a trillion dollars a year and may in fact be higher than the current trajectory.

5....there were words about streamlining the approval process for major energy projects but it is hard for me to imagine that any of that will result in a substantive difference in terms of more energy production in the US.

6...the combination of all of the above suggests that the Government fiscal position is still inflationary and will continue to put pressure on the Fed to, at a minimum, keep interest rates high and possibly be forced to increase them higher in order to achieve the target 2% inflation rate.  This in turn sets the table for a recession in the near term.


My bottom line?

This deal hasn't really changed anything or addressed the systemic problems facing the US and if anything made things worse.  So based on this, my strategy and underlying planning assumptions remain unchanged.  If more data comes out from the CBO that my 'scoring" was significantly wrong then I will revamp my underlying assumptions accordingly.

So if there is a significant positive market reaction to the deal, I expect to be selling into it.
Comment by Torontojay on May 28, 2023 10:09am
The debt ceiling resolution is just confirmation that things are about to get uglier in the near term. Let me explain what's going on now.  Debt ceiling gets increased. They now have sufficient money in their checking/savings account to handle any money outflows for the next year or so. Money gets pulled out of the real economy in the near term. However, overtime  money gets ...more  
Comment by marketsense on May 28, 2023 12:03pm
Added to that a significant swing towards T bills as default risk is now removed from them and investors of every stripe load up.  The net effect from this swing in sentiment is liquidity is pulled out of the stock market and directed to Treasuries and and the bond market.  In time the equity markets will catch up but initially you might be disappointed in the lacklustre reaction. Those ...more  
Comment by Experienced on May 28, 2023 12:10pm
marketsense.....I agree that there is still the question of getting the votes and as they say - "the devil is in the details". That said, as mentioned in an earlier post, at each step along way both sides have been counting the votes and so I would imagine that they are confident that it will pass but I suspect that the vote will be close and so a few "cold feet" at the last ...more  
Comment by matt2018 on May 28, 2023 7:49pm
There will be plenty of votes to get this through. The negotiators for the Repubs are highly respected in the party. McCarthy & House Minority Leader will instruct respective caucuses to vote for it. Sure there will be some house nut jobs (on both sides) who will oppose it, but they will soon find out their vote will be irrelevant. There is a possibility one or more of these jokers will bring ...more  
Comment by vr6loco on May 28, 2023 9:40pm
https://youtube.com/shorts/ao_l4ulpr7I?feature=share
Comment by Experienced on May 28, 2023 12:05pm
Jay - Good points.. To your point, there was talk by Yellen that after the debt ceiling was raised, the Treasury Department would be floating a 1 TRILLION$ offering....a mind boggling amount.  Just to put this number into perspective and to illustrate just how silly the world has become, the size of that offering alone is equal to half of Canad's annual GDP in US$!!!  Another way to ...more