Suncor Energy Inc. T.SU

Jim Farley: EV adoption will take longer than expected

[Obscure1]

Ford reported another nice BEAT for Q2 which was derived from continuing to fleece its ICE customers. Profits are so strong that Ford increased its earnings guidance for 2023 by $2 billion up to $12 billion

Meanwhile, Ford sustained a $1.1 loss on its EV division for the quarter which means that the company will lose more than $4 billion this year trying to figure out how to build a profitable EV.

Here is a question for all of "gas powered vehicles forever" crowd:

Why would Ford choose to lose $4 billion+ this year on EV's?

I can answer that question for you, but I want you to think about it.

When you have chewed through that one, I want to ask you another question:

How you feel about buying a Ford when you know that they are not even trying to hide the fact that they are massively over-charging for their ICE vehicles in order to fund the development of their EV platform?

Ford has openly admitted that they are transitioning to EV's. They have also admitted that they are transitioning as fast as they can. To that end, they recently slashed the price of the EV trucks by $10,000. Of course Farley said the price cut was due to lower costs despite the fact that the company lost almost $50k per EV that they sold in Q2. I guess the price cut had nothing to do with the fact that Tesla will be introducing its Cyber Trucks by the end of Q3.

Don't worry, we all know that we can TRUST Ford to look after our best interests.

How do you think existing Ford Lightning customers feel about suddenly seeing the value of their Lightning's drop $10k?

Existing Lightning owners are assured of facing further price deterioration when Tesla starts pumping out hundreds of thousands of Cyber Trucks at lower prices. To that end, Elon recently said that the Lightning was a good truck but expensive AFTER Ford announced the $10k price reduction.

For years now, the good ol' boys have financed the construction of Tesla factories through the payment for environmental credits. Tesla has used those credits to put legacy auto makers up against the wall.

Instead of asking why the legacy auto makers have been so stupid, you might consider that they have simply been passing the costs on to every ICE car buyer for years. In fact, if you have bought an ICE vehicle in the past few years, you have actually been paying Tesla to build EV factories.

The next time you think about over paying for an ICE vehicle (which you will because the legacy auto makers are not even trying to hide the fact), remember that you are subsidizing EV makers that are going to make your ICE vehicle obsolete long before the end of this decade. Every day that goes by, that reality increases.

Meanwhile, congratulations to Ford and GM and Stellantis who are making historical profits from the undying loyalty of their customers.

[MigraineCall]

'You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat!' 1979 The Wall I see it differently. Ford is clearly making billions with their traditional ICE lineup, with great margins as that is what people want. They are willing to pay more for getting what they want, and Ford sets the price high because they can. This is the pudding. Keep in mind that the light duty vehicle market

[mrbb]

MC, i'm not replying this one because 1) it's clearly a classic example of confirmation bias as you have identified earlier. 2) this isn't about SU/oil vs EV, I see it as a Tesla versus Ford/GM corporate strategy discussion, better suited for Tesla, GM, Ford discussion board, not in SU board. However, you are generous with your time and knowledge to present your counter view

[mrbb]

MC, i got tempted to reply your post because you raised a hidden point often ignored in comparing the overall cost of ownership ICE vs EV, their residual value. Take the market value of tesla first (2008) EV roadster, currently worth 124k USD , best one sold for 250k USD.  Compare that to toyota's first roadster, the 1967 GT2000, it's only 150 hp but its market value is around 1.25

[meritmat]

I'm still trying to figure out who can afford these new trucks.  A 3/4 ton diesel is 100k.   Good luck getting a plain gas that's not pushing 50k.   Add 7% interest on top of that.  Guess I'll keep fixing up my fleet of beaters 

[jx7000]

Migrane, you said, "...your EV will help you save money on energy/fuel cost to offset all the other losses" That may be for now but you can't expect those charging costs to stay as they are now. The politicians and energy cos. are going to extract a pound of flesh once they see the potential for higer revenue. And even if 95% of the N.Am./S.Am./Euro car markets changed over to EVs

[MigraineCall]

Correct. All part of the bait and switch. When they eventually figure it out, you can expect road taxes to be added to those charging costs as well. Users will have to pay proportionally to useage somehow.

[Experienced]

Couple of points Migraine.... 1......the Federal Government will get tax revenue from increased electricity usage from the GST portion of the harmonized sales tax 2....since many people will be charging their EVs at home so an electricity tax would also tax non EV people plus "virtue signalling" the idea of the Feds increasing a tax in electricity usage is at least one to two decades

[mrbb]

I like how you try to cover up your uncertainty on this subject by giving a huge range of time scale, 10, 20 and maybe even 20++ years away. Hard to go wrong with such wide boundaries. LOL A road tax is already here.  Here are the states that imposed a road tax for EV owners, some states start leving road tax since 2019. These are all of the states charging EV owners extra fees just for

[Experienced]

Guess if I said it was sunny you would bash me if there was a cloud in the sky....lol Suppose your post the other day that 99.99% of Inuit know about polar bears was based on your infinite and detailed knowledge of everything.  Especially since more than half of the Canadian polar bears live around Churchill Manitoba and based in a recent census only 10 Inuit live there. Similarly I also

[mrbb]

your rebuttal on my polar bear example is just one more display of you using over exaggeration to skew my orignial comment.  I never gave a specific number like 99.99% inuit represention about polar bear knowledge. It is a known fact that there's a polar bear over population problem, the inuits know it, the science community know it.  Polar bear numbers are so HIGH they threaten

[mrbb]

"was based on your infinite and detailed knowledge of everything" you over exaggerating my position again as your defense. I never claim to know everything, i only discuss things in my realm. I didn't participate in discussion about Nasdaq, SP500, debt ceiling, pending recession, employment, inflation, portfolio mix recommendation. However, you had dwelled in all that plus on

[Obscure1]

Correction: Ford only lost $32,000 per EV sold in Q2.  That is a big improvement on the $58,000 loss that they had on each EV sale in Q1.  Ford now anticipates a $4.5 billion loss on their EV division in 2023 but that number may go higher now that the company has slashed the price of their Lighting trucks by $10,000. That means Ford is going to make about $17 billion on its ICE vehicle

[Kman86]

Dead money because you sold?? You sound like an utter f*ol. Only in your world can it be considered a positive that companies are losing billions of dollars through there EV manufacturing and sales. The reality is that the majority of people aren't buying EVs. The more and more ICEs that are sold is in fact a great detriment to the EV push. We all know that people are generally driving their

[mrbb]

 i guess some people don't understand why legacy auto want to lose money making EV, it's because gov't force them to. Anytime when gov't (central planning aka communism) pick winners and losers, economic efficiency suffer, and a net hit on nation's and their people wealth being. EV is not a novel idea, EV was invented (1830's) before ICE vehicle(1860's). Somehow

[Obscure1]

kman:  You can't possibly be as dumb as you write so I won't bother addressing your nonsense. 

[Kman86]

The hope was that you were done addressing anything here but you you just couldn't help yourself. Do yourself a favour and head back to the lake to engage in conversations with make believe folks.   

[oilandgasmick]

I too wish to meet the "Lady of the Lake" and get all of her stock picks for the TSE. Perhaps then I can draw the sword from the stone and carry Excalibur aloft (while riding in my V6 supercharged 350 horsepower ICE car that I bought a few months ago). I truly love carbon. It's the building block for all species here on Earth.

[bttmfischer]

Those are not TESLA GLASSES he is wearing but   virtual reality goggles which show the wacky world of "green advocats" and their gullable half-witted disciples. They probably think that water bombers stuggling with forest fires would be more effective if they were powered by solar cells,or batteries?  Really, calling  a poster dumb is akin to the saying: THE POT