Minister Ismodes discarded proposed referendum (plebiscite)Just found this interview from February (2019) in which minister Ismodes pronounced about the referendem proposed by Walter Aduviri to decide if the lithium deposit in Puno (Falchani) would be exploited or not. He was very clear in stating that the proposed referendum is currently outlawed and that altough the "prior consultation" over the sorrounding communities is desirable, it is not binding (not mandatory).
Goodnight.
Goodnight.
Thank you very much for being here, Minister.
Thanks to you for the invitation.
I have several topics and I'm going to start with some questions that are very quick to answer. The regional governors of Cajamarca and Puno have proposed a plebiscite so that the population of these regions will decide on the Conga project, for example, and on the lithium project in Puno. What opinion do you have of this initiative?
Enrique, if you allow me, before answering your question I would like to express my solidarity with the victims, the families, who have lost loved ones in the south of our country because of these floods and mudslides. A greeting and a hug for all of them.
On the question, in our country we have mechanisms within the legal order that allow us, precisely, to involve the population in these processes of project development. We have for example "citizen participation" in the development of these investment initiatives, and in some cases where there are indigenous peoples we have what is "prior consultation".
But none of them is binding, and what they (the regional governors) propose is that it be a binding issue. That's why I ask you, would you agree with a plebiscite?
No, I do not agree with a plebiscite because it is not within the legal framework; within the legal framework there is "citizen participation" and there is "prior consultation".
What if there was the possibility of including them in the legal framework?
Well, I believe that what is the use of natural resources in our country goes through a process, a process that not only means the possibility of a plebiscite, but is a process where you first have this conversation and this dialogue with the population and above all in the way of seeing how the economic resources that generate this use of natural resources can be well invested in development. That is not being seen until now. So it is a little dangerous to talk about plebiscites because that could limit the right of all Peruvians and the nation as a whole to take advantage of those natural resources.
There are those who are proposing, as the regional governor of Cajamarca (and President of the Association of Governors), that the property is not only the soil but also the subsoil, in the North American style, where you own the oil below.
Look, that's a long discussion, and that originates in the little benefit that has been given to the areas ...
But do you agree or not?
I agree with what the Constitution says: the mineral resource is of the whole nation.
The other thing, you discard it.
What I consider in this regard is that it is very important the good use of resources to generate welfare for the populations. When that happens, when that happens, then the population will not find much difference between the subsoil or the surface ...
And why has it not happened?
Because those resources have not been well invested ...
Who haven't invested them well?
All the authorities that receive the funds to be invested. Let's talk about the canon, which has not been invested in closing gaps. That is why today the Government is focused on working with local governments and regional governments; we have made the "Munis Ejecutivos", the "Gores Ejecutivos", which are meetings with the provincial mayors, with the governors ...
So for you those responsible for not seeing development from the investment of natural resources are the regional governors.
I believe that in reality it has been a sum of circumstances in which resources have not been well invested. Let's see, let's not focus on the person in charge, let's look forward. What the Government is doing today is to work very closely with local governments, regional governments, including the National Productivity and Competitiveness Policy. This is a way to decentralize decisions and seek that the resources generated from the use of natural resources be better invested in closing gaps.
Now, the governor of Moquegua has propsed an additional 10% fee on miners.
Look, mining nowadays pays 30% of income tax, +/- 10% of extraordinary tax on mining, plus royalties, plus validity rights and penalties ... this exceeds 40%. Then, again, the important thing is how those resources are invested. On average, budget execution of regions has reached an average of 60% in 2018.
Sometimes it is higher than that of the Central Government ...
Well, in that we have improved at the end of the year, we have reached a much higher level of investment.
Now, four or five governors have proposed Constitutional Reform, openly, not only in this show. Constitutional Reform, especially in the Economic Regime. What do you think?
No. What I think is that what we have to promote as a Government, and we are doing it decidedly, is to promote investments. Promote investments in the use of natural resources, both mining and hydrocarbons. And in this line we are working so that the economic resources generated by these investments are better used in favor of all the citizens of our country, in the development of all regions, seeking to close gaps. When we start working achieving that closing of gaps, I believe that these initiatives, which I personally understand, because many years have gone by ...
But you does not share them.
No. What I do share is the need to improve investment in closing gaps, because as long as we do not see welfare in the surface where this wealth is generated in the subsoil, we will not be able to continue promoting these investments. (...)