North American Financial 15 Split Corp T.FFN

Dashboard potential issue - Dec 5, 2024

[maxjac]

Hi all. I'm going to investigate why the dashboard is estimating a NAV so high. Stay tuned.

[maxjac]

Number of shares outstanding dropped by -2,775,105 for Class A and by -3,358,905 for preferred (as per TMX) so that's why we have such a high NAV. I'll continue looking to make sure all is good but I think that's the reason.

[mouserman]

UNIT NAV posted by Quadravest to NOV 29 is number you need to have at that date. However the  outstanding shares are calculated must still make it come out at that number.

[maxjac]

Yes, the unit NAV posted by Quadravest to November 29 is the number that the dashboard has at that date. We then use the official NAV from November 29 and the number of shares as November 29 to calculate the total fund value which comes out very close to the official 1,079,474,725 number. The dashboard does NOT calculate the shares outstanding. Rather, that number comes from the TMX here is the

[mkqtrader]

TMX values should be right, if they don't know who else would? Perhaps, you might need to add an adjustment to rebalance the Total Fund Value to reflect the expenses related to the removal of the over 3 million shares, as it shows in the dashboard from Nov 30

[CDNINV1]

I believe you should override your Dec 5th volumes for both shares classes to reflect the volumes as at 2024-11-29 until .......    TMX corrects their ERROR   :)

[NoShoesNoShirt]

TMX numbers are accurate, but they only reflect the number of shares available for trading. The retracted shares are out of circulation. Quadravest must issue a press release or speculation will run wild. I hope Quadravest reads this.

[maxjac]

I'll see if I should use the TMX Total Shares (All Classes) instead... Perhaps that will work for now. Once my 3yo son let's me do some work (Lord give me patience!). @mouserman, I'll work on an alternate calculation method that would not require the use of the OS at all but that will take time because all of my logic uses the OS count one way or another. Thanks all for your

[mouserman]

RBC nexia does the monthend and midmonth calculations and i know they take into account changes in cash  position and outstanding shares of both classes. So why would we bother ? Once we have the UNIT NAV number, its only 15 days until the next update, and just hope there is not big changes in that 2 weeks. As we have seen , we can very close simply using the % weightings ( we guess) and the

[myNEXTmillion]

It matters because a lot can happen in 2 weeks... Getting numbers from different souces helps give a reality check.  The reported numbers on the updates is verification to our assumptions in the mean time. mNm

[maxjac]

Hi all. I updated my code to use the Total Shares (All Classes) [57,996,092] datapoint from TMX instead of the Listed Shares Out [55,220,987]. We now see an estimated NAV of 18.25. Hoping this will work as a permanent fix. I can revert if/when necessary. Will monitor and see. Thanks!

[WadaSoorma]

First-time poster here; apologies if I’m mistaken. It seems the 55,220,987 figure might reflect Class A retractions, with Quadravest repurchasing and canceling Preferred shares to balance the structure. There are three types of retractions: Preferred Share, Class A Share, and Concurrent Retraction. Preferred Share Retraction: Shareholders receive the lesser of $10 or

[CDNINV1]

Welcome !                No No - 55,220,987 volume Total Shares ( All Classes ) was the same back on March 15, 2024. Last time I printed off TMX FFN Key Data info. 

[navgod]

You are missing the Special Retraction Right that occurs whenever the fund is extended in FFN's case every five years. This is the retraction that is currently under way. Either prefs and/or class A shares can be retracted and will receive their full NAV value. A detailed explaination is provided in the Annual Information Report under the Termination of the fund section. The impact of the

[myNEXTmillion]

IMHO, TMX is incorrect.  The number is likely reported from some regulatory filings in the past.  Unknown is how often TMX is updated.  The number of units reported by FFN in September was 56,515084.  The number is derived from the September update.  Take the market cap and divide it by the share price for the prefs.  That should be the number of units issued and

[CDNINV1]

I am using 59,027,363  units reported by FFN which was derived from the November 29, 2024 FUND UPDATE. 

[CDNINV1]

It appears TMX changed thie share counts around for some unknown reason? Total Shares (All Classes) 57,996,092.00 Listed Shares Outstanding 55,220,987.00

[mouserman]

I  have never kept track of changes in OS shares.. it is an input that is NOT necessary to calculate the NAV. The important parts are the weightings with % of  NAV, and the UNIT NAV. Monthend and midmonth we get updates , and you start over from those dates with the UPDATED nav. If you have % of NAV close and cash position accounted for the OS  share counts take care of themseleves.

[navgod]

Oh my god I just bought 30,000 shares at 7.38 based on the NAV!!  .... just kidding but I did buy the 30k just not for that reason.

[AwesomeMatthews]

I'm surprised you bought back in so soon, I thought you would wait until there is more clarity in regards to the rebalancing of the fund , we haven't got any info on how it affests the pre. shares as of yet have we?

[navgod]

  Discount to NAV has got to the point where I feel comfortable reestablishing some of my position in FFN. Leaving FTN.pr.a alone  but adding to other pref holdings. No clarity on anything -- tis the season and the Quadravest way. GLTA