Dividend 15 Split Corp T.DFN

Markets bouncing back

[mouserman]

Still like Df better .. discounted instead of a premium, with the same holdings.

[saddlerack]

Same holdings but DF has an abysmal record of distributing cash.  I believe that they have missed 60 times and DFN has missed 7.  Why take the risk??

[mouserman]

History is for losers... if they have the same holdings going forward , why would you choose to buy the one that is at a premium, and ignore the sale on DF being that its a discount. They both pay the same amount... DFN has not Exactly  been a rocket up in the past 10 years, so why the love affair?

[Levent14]

Canada's inflation rate cools to 2.7 per cent in April, likely giving BoC 'all clear' for June rate cut. Today C$ 5.47 cost, C$ 1.20 income annualy, makes %21,94 return,at least 3 years. I do believe June rate cut.

[saddlerack]

It seems pretty clear to me that DFN is managed a whole lot better than DF.  They use leverage and covered calls to enhance yield and DFN seems to get it right and DF doesn't.  History may be for losers but it sure shows which of these 2 funds is the loser.  I don't love DFN but I do like the reliable juicy dividend each month.  

[mouserman]

Same management for both, DFN was the first  split fund, and did so well  that  much later on they created DF ll,  with the same holdings but  DF didnt get all the offerings done at big premium  to NAV.. which is kind of like a ponzi setup. Even now Quadravest  can sell shares of DFN  out of the treasury  (thru the ATM program) ,when its a signifcant

[NoShoesNoShirt]

Saddlerack you're evaluating these funds like they are companies. They are funds, and they payout when the nav is high enough. DFN started at a higher nav going back 5 years, and both DF and DFN  payout too much to maintain their nav.  Now that they have similar navs, they have similar future prospects but one is way more expensive. 

[flamingogold]

What if rates drop a couple of pts by Fall, will there be a need to hike the prefs if the other prefs are coming down? I currently don't own DFN, but do have a small position in DF given the discount and the potential for rate cuts over the next year.

[saddlerack]

You might be right.  But the funds are not identical.  If you check the the holdings sorted by weight as published by Quadravest on May 15, they are different.  I don't know if the manager of the funds are different people, but it sure looks like it to me.     Royal Bank of Canada Manulife Financial Corp Toronto-Dominion Bank TC Energy Corp Sun Life Financial

[saddlerack]

Here's both.  The lists were not copied in the post above Quadravest DF and DFN May 15 2024   DF   Manulife Financial Corp Royal Bank of Canada TC Energy Corp Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce Sun Life Financial Inc National Bank of Canada Thomson Reuters Corp Bank of Montreal Toronto-Dominion Bank Enbridge Inc Suncor Energy Inc BCE Inc Bank of Nova

[mouserman]

You obviously didnt visit the website documents .. Quadravest manages both funds... and that is NOT the complete list of holdings. That is only the top 15  , there is actually 20 and every one of them is in both funds.

[saddlerack]

Maybe so but still not identical 

[navgod]

Give the rest of us a break! You remind me of the child that has to get the last word in. No one said DF and DFN are identical but closer to non identical twins or perhaps siblings -- in any case they share a lot of DNA :). As for your previous opinion doubting they had the same management -- ridiculous  glta

[saddlerack]

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult anyone, just trying to understand how these funds can have such rich payouts.  I guess I wanted to believe that DFN was managed by someone different than DF.  I found the ATM program that yoiu referred to and am a bit stunned that this is actually legal.  It sure does smell like a Ponzi scheme.  Here's a quote right from their prospectus

[navgod]

sorry too sometimes let my frustrations boil over -- now we got the dual Canadian sorrys out of the way let's discuss the {rich payouts}. Most retail investors in splitshares are here for the payouts - so-called yield pigs. I care about the payouts only to the extent it influences other investors behavour. I believe you could just sell off 1% of your holding every month and call that a 12

[saddlerack]

More than 20 years ago, over about 3 years,  I turned $200,000 into $4,000,000 using leverage and cover calls on income trusts.  And then one day allmost all of my equity evaporated.  That was when the government decided to change the rules regarding income trusts.  It was sickening.  I have since recovered and have become a much more conservative investor and do not use

[Mmb060]

Yes, leverage is a double edged sword.  Great when things go well and disastrous when it reverses.      Its the same with housing where home equity skyrocked pre 2022, and then has come crashing down.  With higher rates, some are getting wiped out.    I see the same with splits, where now some prefs paying 7%+, which will suck a lot of cash from the UNIT, thus